Alert: OFFICIAL: Xherdan Shaqiri Career Deaththread AND Shaqiri Nutrider Thread

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by xtomx, Feb 9, 2022.

  1. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    It's not that we "forget" 2022 was a rebuilding year; it is that we are tired of this being the 11th "rebuilding" year in the past 12 seasons.
    2 playoff appearances (out in one game both times) since 2009 means "enduring" another rebuilding year is less than desirable.

    It is also why the minutiae of what some people are discussing is so annoying. Nothing is going to matter until we field a competitive team.
    I don't know if we have one this year or not.

    2017 was the only year that we have been objectively good since 2010 or so.
    Even 2012 (the other season we "made" the first playoff game), we were not exactly a good team. It was the year that we had Arne Friedrich and Pavel Pardo, so we had the "aging great players" covered. They were a pleasure to watch.
     
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  2. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    Hmm, maybe, but it could just be because our 10 played out wide way too much (cutting off the overlaps), couldn't shoot anywhere near as much from out there, and was not as accurate when he did.
    upload_2023-2-3_16-17-55.png
    Driussi's numbers are magnified in comparison (a bit) by playing 7more games...but that doesn't account for nearly double the number of shots.

    I guess you could argue Ezra tactics dictated Shaq out wide (vs him doing it on his own), but I can't think of another 4-2-3-1 example that ran the 10 out wide as much as we did. Either way, that must improve or we will fail to make the playoffs...again.
    upload_2023-2-3_16-34-9.png
     
  3. Jiggly_333

    Jiggly_333 Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Mar 8, 2015
    Corner of Bedlam and Squalor (It's that way ->)
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Technically I was right because I said it wouldn't work out and it didn't work out.

    And as for Toronto, they didn't get their two Top Level DPs until the middle of the season and their defense was so bad that they couldn't score more goals than they allowed. With Sean Johnson (a guy we all know has experience playing behind the worst defense in MLS) and a full season of Bernadeschi and Insigne, they will likely dominate.

    It's fine if Shaqiri was supposed to be our guy during a building season, but that means that this offseason should've been the one where we go out and get the guy who will finish off what Shaqiri creates. And we haven't. Shaqiri is best when he's not the focal point, he needs someone out there to help take pressure off so both of them can move more freely.

    And as I keep having to yell at the top of my lungs at people on reddit who want us to get Pogba: YOU CAN'T WIN GAMES UNLESS YOU SCORE GOALS! WHO IS SCORING GOALS?!
     
  4. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #529 xtomx, Feb 3, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2023
    Agree, overall.

    Not just because I cannot stand Paul Pogba as a player, but this would likely be the worst decision the Fire could possibly make.

    The fact that this nonsense is on Reddit is another excellent reason NOT to be on Reddit.
     
  5. milicz

    milicz Member+

    Dec 2, 2001
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    I wonder if they could pull a stat showing how many times a team has 3 or 4 players inside the opposition 16 during the run of play. My guess is Austin's number would be something like 6x what ours was.

    I read a little on Wolff's philosophy last year, from what I remember they tried to create space for Driussi to operate in, when you attack quickly in numbers you pull defenders with you and your best attacking player finds it. We don't do that, we attack against numbers with smaller numbers. I think the heatmaps on Sofascore will show you the positions that Austin's team gets into and what our players get into.
     
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  6. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    This was an a’ha for me, as I had not seen much of him prior to being here…just his World Cup highlights.

    It might be the key issue…can he be a CAM you run an offense through? If not we may have a square peg for a round hole. And if we use him wide we probably need a different formation, as our wings are expected to be part of the defense. If so, it would be a major blunder on Heitz and Ezra.

    But I’m going to say he *can* be a 10 that everything is played through…just need him to stay central and need someone else so dangerous to draw the opponents attention.
     
  7. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    I’ll hunt for it later, and expect what you say to be true, but what you describe is how a 4-2-3-1 is supposed to work.

    I just don’t think it’s clear our overlaps/overloads didn’t happen because of Ezra’s tactics or how our 10 (in an unnatural position) disrupted it by being really wide on a regular basis. I know many blame it on ‘defensive minded Ezra’, but he was part of the coaching staffs at Cbus and Seattle that ran this same formation…and they attacked with more than 4~
     
  8. milicz

    milicz Member+

    Dec 2, 2001
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    Do you really believe that? It seems a little hard to think that you actually believe Shaqiri is scuppering Ezra's plans. As a coach you have to adjust. The field is big, you have a left side as well. As a coach I assume you have played, and at this level positional interchangeability in the final third is kind of crucial. So if Shaq goes wide that should open space that we can utilize, if we send players. Some of the teams I watch the most right now, Napoli and Lens, do very effective triangles out wide hugging the sideline, it opens up a lot of space. Look at Florian Sotoca's heatmap he's a CAM, he's out wide a LOT, but this opens up space for Frankowski to run into. I'm 99% certain it's coaching philosophy and not an offensively gifted player that is limiting the attack.
     
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  9. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    NO, I'm not saying Shaqiri was malicious.

    But I am saying I saw dozens of instances where Navarro, Sekluic, and the struggling RW we had on the field not know how to adjust to his movements. And lost track of the number of times when Shaq would take and fake the go pass, hold it get double teamed and then kick it into their shins and loose it...resulting in Sekulic being "out of position" and "to offensive minded"....and the counter was off against us.

    I also think Ezra did make a couple of adjustments during the season, and the last one (after it was clear we had a serious goal scoring problem) was "just let Shaqiri do his thing, it can't be worse and it may spark something"

    In the end it's probably all some combination of a new coach, a DP being played out of natural position and 8 other field players that need more distinct pattern of play than we had.

    But yea, I don't think it's just "overly defensive Ezra only letting 4 attack".
     
  10. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
  11. schroncar

    schroncar Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Mar 2, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very informational. Lots to digest there.
     
  12. milicz

    milicz Member+

    Dec 2, 2001
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    From the tweet I saw:

    The best passers in 2022:
    [emoji1628] Xherdan Shaqiri #CF97   
    [emoji1627] Nicolás Lodeiro #Sounders   
    [emoji1626] Jamiro Monteiro #Quakes74   
     
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  13. juicecrewallstar

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    Mar 1, 2019
    please get the man someone to pass to
     
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  14. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    The definition for 'PFF Passing Grade' isn't easy to find...the majority of https://www.pff.com/grades is focused on NFL & College football...it looks like they are new to soccer analytics (Aug2022). Searching MLS on their site to find https://www.pff.com/news/premier-le...g-performance-across-leagues-using-pff-grades

    The PFF player grading system evaluates every player for every event during a game. Each player is given a grade of -2 to +2 in 0.5 increments on a given play, with 0 generally being the average or “expected” grade. This means an unpressured pass to a completely open target is expected to be executed successfully, leading to a 0 grade if completed, whereas a pass under pressure breaking the defensive line is above expectation, with a positive grade as a potential reward. PFF’s grading process is identical for each competition, giving us a tool to compare the quality of actions instead of just looking at quantities.

    So, it would be helpful to see more info from/about PFF, but it looks like you have to pay and do it yourself. https://fc.pff.com/


    Any idea who coded that chart?

     
  15. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Apparently there’s a pre-season video on AppleTV that explains how Shaqiri led the league last season with 5 goal scoring opportunities created per game.
     
  16. Ahan Jain

    Ahan Jain Member

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    Nov 16, 2016
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Too bad he is surrounded by grinders and hustlers who do not speak the same soccer language his him and have no clue how to combine with him that does not involve just running up and down the field in straight lines...
     
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  17. milicz

    milicz Member+

    Dec 2, 2001
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    Yup, I watched that. I watched us suck tonight as well
     
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  18. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Shaqiri had the 10th best World Cup debut goal according to the show Gold Stars.

    "Only 10th? He sucks." -certain Fire fans.
     
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  19. schroncar

    schroncar Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Mar 2, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any additional information/ videos, etc. would be appreciated. Not sure what
    10th best World Cup debut goal means.
     
  20. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    It was on the show that is on after the Iceland v. Liechtenstein match.

    2014 World Cup v. Honduras June 24, 2014.
    First goal of Shaqiri's hat trick.
     
  21. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Were any of them PKs?
     
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  22. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    Why y'all talking up that guy we pay 8mil to walk around, bark at refs, launch freekicks over the frame, and take PKs...and...isn't playing?:x3:

    Wait...is it all the twitter/reddit folk calling for him to lose his starting role to a teenager?:ninja:
     
  23. harrylee773

    harrylee773 Member+

    Jul 28, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lol the Twitter/reddit (hell I’ll even throw Facebook in for good measure) folk have the average soccer IQ of a chicken sandwich. If they are calling for something, it’s safe to say that the right move is the opposite of whatever that is.
     
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  24. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Maybe coach Ezra should lead by example instead of whining like a child…

     
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  25. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022

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