Ukraine v Russia II

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by crazypete13, Apr 20, 2022.

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  1. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don’t know if you’re a Frontline fan, but their latest documentary, “Putin and the Presidents,” is pretty interesting. Trump is in a class, since while other presidents may have misjudged Putin or were weak in response to his aggressions, he alone basically embraced what Putin was doing.

    Biden, on the other hand, never trusted Putin. Always saw him and his actions through a Cold War lens that’s proven to be an accurate representation of the despot.

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/putin-and-the-presidents/
     
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  2. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tankies are like reverse neocons…their enemies are simultaneously nearly omnipotent and also very feeble. Whichever serves the current discussion.
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I've posted this before, but i wish the media would go back to a revealing interview with Trump in the 80s where he advocated for the US and USSR to join forces as the two nuclear bullies on the block and rule the world. (In his example he imagines the two superpowers subjugating Pakistan.

    This idea is obviously completely stupid as American and Russia are geopolitical rivals and don't have aligned interests, but the idea gained steam via people like Steve Bannon who argue the US, Russia and Israel ought to align in a white nationalist bloc against the brown people.

    One of the other issues is Trump clearly doesn't care about the national interest but sees US interests as his own personal, oligarch style interests. Foreign policy is simply a tool to enrich himself.

    This is how he got played by Putin every time, and once you understand it, it is obvious why Ukraine will be in huge danger from a Trump presidency. Zelensky did not pay Trump tribute, therefore there is no way Trump will send 1c in support.

    The MAGA GOP has already made this clear and it is why McCarthy & McConnell agreed to rush through the last Ukraine support package in the lame duck. (McCarthy voted against but tacitly supported it).

    Trump's 'peace plan' is simply to carve Ukraine up at Putin's direction. Incidentally, the same as Musk's peace plan, and the same plan Manafort was touting before he had to go to jail for being a Russian agent
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Hertling is also saying the fast light forces might be more important than the new tanks

    One thing about the leopards etc arriving, is then Ukraine will be able to replace losses of existing tanks committed to offensives with new tank brigades that will take months to train up

     
  5. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    It's going to be even slower for Abrams. They have to be new built - we don't export any Abrams with the depleted uranium armor. They currently say August.
     
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  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yes. Hertling had comment on them. It's a shift from the forces Ukraine can use most efficiently right now, to longer term force design with more complex supply chain etc - basically a long term commitment to Ukraine which Joe had avoided until now

    I think that is the real shift Germany+USA have made.
     
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  7. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    My heart is filled with sorrow...
     
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  8. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    While doing this would be responsible journalism, don't imagine that this would push the needle one way or the other with Trump's support.
     
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  9. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    You're quoting me out of context - I'm not sad about his death, just pointed out the "why" we killed him. In retrospect, that wasn't the right thing to do or we didn't managed the "after Gaddafi" the right way if you look at what Libya has become
     
  10. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But you didn't point out "why" Qaddafi died. You didn't accurately state a single thing.

    36/100 read actual work by academics.
     
  11. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Previous post
    Their basket of commodities would be backing their currency which would be required to acquire them. We killed Gaddafi for less than that - of course it matters.

    He was planning the launch of the African Gold Dinar - a single currency for Africa back by gold.
     
  12. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At the time of the Libya revolution to overthrow him, the country had like 7 billion worth of gold, not nearly enough to back a global currency.

    The whole idea that that is the reason he was overthrown is an internet myth.

    The idea was not bad, the African union using all of their gold reserves for their own continent wide currency, but like free trade talks and other projects, it was all talk, lack of trust on who and how this would be managed meant that the idea was not going to go anywhere.
     
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  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    right.

    the reason why the EU could put up a currency is tight integration.

    the idea this can be achieved by a disparate bunch of rogue states or countries with unstable currencies is silly.

    see the pacific as to the difficulties of even creating alignment for a trading zone
     
  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
  15. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Russia has a fresh supply of 18 year old and younger girls who have not been warned about him.
     
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  16. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can anyone think of another multi-national currency that had any lasting success? I'm coming up blank on the concept. Establishing the Euro was a Herculean task for some of the most stable and economically advanced democracies (and not every country in Western Europe bought into it). A pan-African currency started by a rogue nation like Libya? Not really something the West needed to be afraid of.
     
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  17. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    The CFA franc has gone on for a long time but it is pegged to the French franc. The nations involved have to have reserves on deposit in Paris. The internet conspiracy theorists that complain the most about this mostly intersect with the one who believe in the Gaddaffi assisination theory.
     
  18. O..M..G..
    If you really believe this shit, you better start reading other internet sites.
     
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  19. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He doesn't actually believe any of this. He wants to because History 102 said colonialism bad. But Colonialism Bad =/= Dictator Good, a lesson we all know he knows.
     
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  20. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean, if we're looking for the list of the peoples most victimized by colonialism and imperialism, the Ukrainians should be somewhere in the top 10% (or bottom 10%, depending on how you look at it). The Russians have centuries of conquest, ethnic and cultural erasure, and outright genocide in their ledger. There's a reason most of their neighbors hate them. For some reason, though, many supposedly anti-colonial and anti-imperialist people have a blind spot when it comes to this history. Would they be as milquetoast about the situation if Russia was invading, say, Mongolia?

    Reflexively opposing US foreign policy is just as dumb as automatically supporting it.
     
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  21. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Drug war?
    War on Poverty?
    Culture war?
     
  22. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Never mind that Gaddafi was killed by Misrata-based militias, and as for the why, it was done in revenge for his indiscriminate killing of civilians, and the arrests, tortures and summary executions of his opponents. I don't doubt that the US and Western European powers had their own reasons for wanting him dead, but under the circumstances, lets not cry for him.

    In general I oppose the death penalty, but the murder of dictators who tortured, killed and oppressed populations that they ruled over are probably the one exception. I would have celebrated with passion if Jorge Rafael Videla had been killed, and I'm sure many regular folk must have celebrated Gaddafi's death with that same passion.
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Of course not, we wanted to bring democracy to Libya

    I think they are just after their interest and not out of some newfound Russian patriotism or their history.

    Except when they benefit us
     
  24. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not only that, it's a group of countries that hate and/or don't trust each other.
     
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  25. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What possible interest does, say, Brazil have in seeing Russia oppress Ukraine?

    I can see countries in the Global South not caring about this conflict, unless it somehow has a direct negative effect on them. But, there have been plenty of leaders in that part of the world that seem determined to excuse and support Russia in this conflict.
     

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