British Football Best XIs (1863-1939)

This is a combined Liverpool/Everton team. Inside-right is Tommy McDermott.

 

More good information thanks.

In the Readers' List, Lomas and Wilson were rugby players.

 

It would be interesting to see when a non-british player would first make it into one of these teams ("all nationalities") and who it would be?

By 1933 you would think someone like Andarde might have a chance but the British did not have as much exposure to the South Americans compared to continental football.

Maybe one of the Austrians (Sindelar or Hiden) or Zamora? Those are this first foreign players to have really strong performances vs the British.

 

It might have been Szepan some time after 1935. Link below refers.
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/a...f-greatest-ever.2109507/page-34#post-40079678

 

It is impressive how well regarded Szepan was in the eyes of the English, much more so than on the Continent.

 

I would say players like Zamora and Orth would be first, especially Gyuri. Nasazzi could find himself in an eventual dispute with the main British full-backs — Nick Ross, Jesse Pennington, Bob Crompton and Walter Arnott, for example.

In my opinion, Káďa is the best Pre-WWII centre-half, even better than Alex Raisbeck, Charlie Roberts and Billy Wedlock. The left half-back would be between Needham and Crabtree, without much dispute beyond these two, but Crabtree would be my main option because I consider him a better footballer than Needham. On the right side, well, that's already a matter of criteria between Andrade and Crabtree, in my view, even though Andrade had been much more consistent as a centre-half, he played more times as a right half-back than Crabtree, even the versatile English belonging to a different level than Andrade. If I would place Crabtree on the right side, Needham would be my first choice as left half-back: Therefore, from right to left: Andrade, Káďa, Crabtree.

I would build the forward line as follows: Meredith, Scarone, Orth, James and Orsi.

Scarone, in my opinion, ranks above the two main British inside rights: Bobby Walker and Steve Bloomer. In the center of the attack, I wouldn't put Sindelar, because there were better options than him, including in Central Europe. Schaffer and Orth were players of a higher level than Sindelar, especially Orth. For the outside left position, I have a preference for Orsi over Morton, considering both above Fred Spiksley and Alex Smith.

This is a Pre-WWII XI which I made a few days ago: https://arfsh.com/article?id=1328

 

I'm guessing, Bob Kelly (IR) and Eric Brook (OL)

 

Sorry, if I'm a bit out of the theme. But I like to post this ancient book.



http://www.scottishsporthistory.com/uploads/3/3/6/0/3360867/football_by_giants.pdf

 

Interesting to see your thoughts mate: I guess they are based on what you have read? You are putting Orth in as a similar type of player to a Sindelar or a GO Smith I think in the centre forward position (an 'old-fashioned' centre forward as it would be seen in the 1930s I suppose, perhaps more about the setting up than the scoring)? Might you have considered Silvio Piola otherwise? Or Leonidas from Brazil?

Might you have considered another Hungarian Gyorgy Sarosi for a place somewhere? Or Giussepe Meazza at inside forward or centre forward? Might you have felt 1930s Jose Manuel Moreno was in contention even?

 

Interesting to see this one: he implies lots of retired English wingers would be good enough to challenge Matthews for a place in the England team, then puts a Welsh winger and a Scottish winger in his XI interestingly! I wonder whether saying Matthews would have more competition for his place was based on the assumption Finney can go on the left (or maybe he just meant in numbers of possibilities to play RW at International level): Finney was already considered a contender with Matthews for RW and had played quite a few Internationals in that position, although they'd also found the solution of Finney being put on the left and playing both of them. Meredith over Matthews is perhaps an even bigger/(more surprising?) call as late as that (I know Matthews was already making a big mark in the 1930s, with Raymond Braine saying he was the best player he'd seen before the end of that decade, but with the whole 1940s too it adds more to Matthews' case). Obviously everything from Matthews, and Finney, from the 1950s, is not factored in, so we don't know if he'd have changed his mind (as well as when he'd have put some foreign players in his all-time XI - might the first ones been Puskas, and perhaps another Hungarian like Hidegkuti or Bozsik...or maybe even Puskas would not have convinced him to change his line-up, and neither Di Stefano or Pele.....it'd be interesting to find any subsequent selections, or even comments, from him I guess anyway!).

I would seem hypocritical if I suggested this guy had nostalgia in picking his all-time XI, or 'past player bias' probably lol (given what my all-time XI would look like today probably!), but he does retain many players from what was then long ago in that team: maybe that makes the inclusions of James, and Morton too, even a bit more notable though in some ways? Anyway, he knew those older players he picked much better than I do I'm sure!

I guess he may have not seen a lot of football from other nations (though could be wrong), which is another consideration probably, along with the remaining idea that British football hadn't been surpassed (England had recently got a big win in Italy which might have reinforced that idea too).

 

With perfect timing!

 

Actually, to add a little (though not too much) to what I said earlier: I also wonder about your view on Raymond Braine that I inadvertently mentioned when talking about Matthews, and also Antonin Puc as a left winger option (how he might compare to Orsi, Morton, Bastin in your estimation for example)....

 

The period included in nearly all the selections here is the twenty or so years before WW1. Not many selectors venture back before 1890, and none before 1880. Some extend to various degrees after the war.

So for comparison purposes it may be safer to confine ourselves to players from around 1890 to 1914. Also, nearly all the selectors are English and their focus is on football in England. Scottish footballers who did not represent English clubs are largely ignored.

The exercise a few years ago on this forum to identify the leading footballers from contemporary sources for each season between 1869 and 1919 suggested that the best players in any one season were not always those whose reputations endured.

During the 25 seasons between 1889-90 and 1913-14, only six players were judged the season's best more than once. Meredith was there four times, and there were two wins each for John Campbell (Sunderland), Needham, Reynolds, Bobby Walker and Crompton. The best Bloomer managed was one second and one third place. But he left the most tangible legacy, namely goals, so is remembered while others are forgotten. The only goalkeeper judged season's leading player was Ned Doig in 1902.

Updated team 1890-1914 based on the 25 selections submitted so far:

Hardy (13) - Crompton (16), Pennington (9) - Crabtree (9), Raisbeck (8), Needham (11) - Meredith (17), Bloomer (16), GO Smith (4), Greville Morris (2), Spiksley (6). Morris now edges out McMenemy on a tie break of 2nd XI nominations.

 

There is a piece written by Grenville Morris that has been posted here, and he refers to Vizard and Meredith in it too, as well as corroborating the idea that the game was more skillful in bygone years compared to in 1930, when he wrote the piece:
Forest Early History - sponsored by I‘m Red Till Dead | Page 93 | LTLF Forest Forum

"ONE of the greatest personalities Association football has known is A. Grenville Morris, who during his fifteen years as inside left for Nottingham Forest gave lustre to the game.

He played for Wales on 21 occasions, but might have got many more caps had the Forest seen their way to let him go every time he was required

He retired from football in 1913, declining further engagement with the Forest in order that he might secure amateur status as a lawn tennis player, being deeply interested in the game. The Lawn Tennis Association, however, refused his application.

Morris regards present-day football inferior to that of the past, chiefly for the reason that there is not enough good ball control. Insufficient attention, he says, is given to this important point. At the same time points out that the game is faster than it used to be on account of the new offside law, which enables players to lie well up the field and make speedy sprints for goal. Goalkeepers, he says, are better now than ever they were.

Here is his story of his most successful career:

TRIPLE CAP AT 18.

I started playing football in my native town, Builth, mid-Wales, and occupied a position in the forward line of the second team. When 16 years old I moved to Aberystwyth in order to commence an engineering apprenticeship, and, much to my surprise, in three weeks’ time I found myself in the first eleven.

The next season I played in the Welsh International Trial match, and the following year when I was, therefore, only 18 years old, I appeared in the three International matches against Ireland, Scotland and England,

Having finished my apprenticeship in Aberystwyth I went Into the works of the Great Western Railway Co. at Swindon, and I played football as amateur for the town club for about year. I was persuaded to become professional and I stayed with the Swindon Town nearly two years longer. Joining Nottingham Forest in November 1898, I played for them until 1913.

TENNIS REBUFF.

I retired after 15 years service in order that I might obtain re-instatement as an amateur and play lawn tennis. The Lawn Tennis Association had passed a rule that no professional in any other sport could play as an amateur, but that application for reinstatement might be made before July, 1913. The Forest offered me further engagement for two or three years, but I was so keen on tennis and getting reinstated that I declined.

The Lawn Tennis Association refused to reinstate me, because I suppose I had been a professional football player too long. I wrote and asked why my application had been refused, receiving a reply to the effect that it had not been the practice of the Association to reinstate men who applied on the eve of their retirement from professionalism.

This was absurd. I know of at least two instances of football players who have obtained reinstatement. There is no justice in a rule like that. If I bad had a bad record I could have understood it. but I never had a black mark.

I was thoroughly disgusted, and decided that I would not go back to football. The Notts Lawn Tennis Association tried for years get the parent body to alter their decision, but all their efforts proved of no avail. About eight years ago, therefore, I took up coaching and can claim to have met with some success.

A FATAL LAPSE.

During my association with the Forest we twice reached the Cup semi-final. In 1900 we made a draw with Bury, and ought certainly to have won the replay at Bramall-lane. Ten minutes from the end we were leading by two goals to none, and then Bury scored a rather lucky goal.

Half a minute from time one of our players, who was standing about 40 yards from bis own goal, got so excited that he sent the ball straight back for a corner kick when could easily have kicked up the field. The ball was placed well into goal, dropped on the head McLuckie1, and dribbled slowly into the net. Before the game could be restarted time arrived. We were thoroughly disheartened, and In the extra time Bury scored the winning goal. They afterwards carried off the Cup, beating Southampton four goals to none. The trophy would, I think, have been ours had it not been for that unfortunate slip.

A contributing cause to our defeat was also the absence Frank Forman, our centre half-back, who was ill. A totally Inexperienced man who had never even played with the reserve team, and whose only experience was Thursday League football, took Forman’s place2!

In the other semi-final, against Southampton at Tottenham in 1902, we lost.

NOTHING NEW.

We should have won the League championship one year. Norris, one our defenders, broke his leg, however, in a Cup-tie at Birmingham and we had to rearrange our side.

Arthur Capes was taken out of the forward line and put amongst the half-backs, and this upset our attack. We had been at the top of the League from October to the beginning of April, and we lost our place and the championship through this accident and nothing else.

It became the custom for the Welsh Association to write to the Forest club asking whether it was any use selecting me, and the Forest would reply according to the circumstances. When they were in difficulties, or faced by games they wanted to win, they had to write saying they could not release me, and I thus missed a number of caps.

Wales won the International Championship during the time I was playing. In that yea – 1907 -we drew with England at Fulham 1-1. We ought to have gained the victory because about a minute from time we secured a corner kick which was taken by Meredith.

The ball travelled over the heads of all the other players to me at inside left. I was standing only about a yard from the goal and the goalkeeper was quite out of the way. All I had to do was to touch the ball into the net. What was my amazement and despair to find that Ben Warren held me firmly by the jersey and I could not get my foot to the ball.

The spectators behind the goal could see what took place and shouted for a penalty kick, but the referee, who was right on the other side and had his view obstructed by the other players, saw nothing of the incident and so we got nothing.

That might have lost us the International Championship, but fortunately it did not. It certainly lost the victory.

VIZARD BEST PARTNER.

The best partner I ever played with was Vizard, of the Bolton Wanderers. He was wonderful. When he got the ball it was his, and an opponent who tried to get it from him had something contend with.

At the present time players regard the ball as if it were red hot, and do their best to part with it as soon as they get it. Apart from being splendid player, Vizard was a splendid partner. He knew what his partner wanted, and he always did exactly what was right. An outside man can a great deal for the advantage of his fellow player on the wing.

We played together for the first time against Ireland about the time he was coming out, and it was remarked at time that played if we had been partners for ten years. We seemed to “get” one another straight away. The understanding was mutual.

Meredith played In the first Trial match for Wales when I did, and I thought he was the finest player I had ever seen. His ball control was marvellous, but then, consider what did in order to make himself proficient. He used to practise with the ball more than players nowadays would dream of. He would dribble it in and out amongst bottles. He was untiring his determination to obtain proficiency.

NOT THEIR LIKE TODAY.

The failing of present-day forwards is their lack of ball control, and I am certain that they do not get half sufficient training in that direction. You have only to remember Bloomer and the goals he scored. His performances were simply the outcome of ball control and shooting power.

There are no Bloomers, Frank Formans, Needhams, Cromptons, Merediths, Holts, Crabtrees, Lofthouses, or Vizards today.

Look at the Villa teams of the past and their beautiful forward play. Compare them with those of the present. Players make great reputations one year but nothing is heard of them the next year.

I believe there are better goalkeepers today than ever there were. You never see bad one now, but in the past there were many of indifferent standard. On the other hand, the backs are not so good as they were, neither are the half-backs There are not the numbers who stood out in the past.

The forwards used to move along in a line, and much more skill was required than under present conditions. The only thing that makes the game appear faster is the new off-side law. The forwards can now lie well up, and when the ball comes to them they are quickly in front. The ball certainly travels from end to end quicker than formerly, and more opportunities of scoring occur, as the scoring sheets show, but far greater bail craft was displayed in m days than now.

DITCHED!

Many of my friends will be surprised to hear me say that in my younger days I was fond of charging. I was really vigorous until I was 17 years old, but I found out that it did not pay and that you cannot play the charging game and score goals.

Once while I was at school I played In a game against the headmaster’s team. There was ditch running alongside the touch line and the headmaster, playing at outside right, came in my direction with the ball.

I ran across from the centre field and, making my mind that the only way to get possession was to charge, I rushed him. To my horror, he disappeared in the ditch. My heart was in my mouth until he appeared again covered in mud, but notwithstanding the state he was in he smiled.

“WE ARE SEVEN.”

During the time I was at Builth I played against a team of the South Wales Borderers. Someone had evidently told them to watch me. They did more. As soon as I got the ball I found that seven of them were following me about. Wherever went the whole seven were on my heels. I never experienced anything so funny in all career. But I could run in those days, and I led them a rare dance.

In the first game I played for Swindon Town - against Now Brompton, I believe - the ground was heavy, and so was the ball. At half-time the score was one goal each, and Just after the restart I headed the ball. I remember no more of the match, but was told afterwards that about three minutes from time said to the inside-right "Where am I?" He replied "What do you mean?” and I said, "I don't know where I am."

He retorted, " You are playing football for Swindon and von have got to try to get the ball In the net."

About half a minute from time the ball came to me, standing about 40 yards from goal as far as I could say. I went right through and scored, and before the ball could be taken to the half-way line time was called. Half an hour must have elapsed before I returned to full consciousness, and it was not until then that I knew that I had won the match.

“WALKING ON AlR.”

In my first season with the Forest we trained at Skegness for a Cup-tie with Everton. En route to Liverpool had a meal on the train, and at night we all went to a place amusement where we began to feel ill. We passed a terrible night suffering from stomach trouble, the effects of what had eaten. Only those who had partaken the food were affected. Fred Forman, the brother of Frank, and Benbow, who joined us later, did not suffer in any way.

We were dreadfully weak on the field play, but Frank Forman played brilliant game, and scored a beautiful goal which won the match. I shall never forget it; it was likely walking about air.

At the beginning of my career I played centre-forward, and have been in that position for Swindon, the Forest, and Wales, but I preferred inside left, for I found that player got a good deal of knocking about in the centre.

I was in the centre in the notable game the Forest played against Burnley, out which such trouble arose for some of the Lancashire club’s players.

I have idea how many goals I scored. Records of scorers were not kept with such care as now. In one season West and I were the only players who scored any goals for the Forest up to Christmas, while in the season 1902-03 I was the only player In the Forest team who scored for six weeks, my total being 10.

In that season I scored 25 goals out of a total of 29. Goals were hard to get in those days. That total of 25 would represent a great deal more in modern football."

 

The piece from the same year about/by Tinsley Lindley might be worth looking at too (which mentions Cobbold, and Goodall and Bassett too for example), although Lindley hasn't had any votes so far I don't think has he....
Forest Early History - sponsored by I‘m Red Till Dead | Page 93 | LTLF Forest Forum

Thirteen times an English International in the golden days of Association football, Dr. Tinsley Lindley, famous centre-forward of the Corinthians and Nottingham Forest, is recognised as one of the players who helped to create the subtleties of Soccer forward play and to make W. N. Cobbold “the Prince of Dribblers.”

A barrister practising on the Midland circuit, Dr, Tinsley Lindley has always been devoted to football, this fascinating story shows, and he has kept in touch with the game.

His frank and constructive criticisms of modern methods are of marked importance. He finds

Ball control poor and shooting as faulty as can be.
He would pay each professional player what he is worth - even up to £40 a week.
He would introduce two referees and amend the penalty-kick law, although he considers that
recent legislation has produced deterioration.

(INTERVIEW BY TRENTSIDER.)

LOOKING back on my career in the football world I sometimes marvel at my own activities (said Dr. Tinsley Lindley).

I yield to none in my admiration of the Association, game, which I played with such zest, and, although I think there has been some deterioration since my playing days, I can still watch a match with the greatest interest.

I learned my football while I was going to the Nottingham High School. I always had a ball with me.

BALL. STREET, WALL.

As I went through the streets I used to kick it against the wall, and when it returned on the rebound I tapped it back, making progress all the time. That taught me the angle the ball would take, and I became able to judge the exact spot to which it would come.

I became captain of the school team, and when I was a little over 16 years of age I joined Nottingham Forest, playing with some regularity for them for two years. In my first game for the Forest against Wolverhampton at Stafford Road I scored three goals.

Going to Cambridge I secured colours in my first year, and I was captain for two years in 1886-1887. Being elected a member the Corinthians I remained a playing member of that organisation until I retired from football in 1895 or 1896.

My first game with the Corinthians was against Blackburn Rovers, who were then the holders of the F.A. Cup, and we beat them 8-1. In our side were M. J. Rendall, who became headmaster of Winchester, Andy Watson, a Scotsman, W. F. Beardshaw, a Sheffield man, A. Amos, C. Holden White, F. E. Saunders, F. W. Pawson, B. W. Spilsbury, A. J. Miller - the nom-de-plume of Dr. John Smith, the old Queen’s Park centre-forward - W. N. Cobbold, or as Dr. Smith always called him, “the king of dribblers,” and myself.

In the early days of the Corinthians Cambridge players predominated and their style of play was generally adopted. It is still played by the Corinthians of today. It consists of keeping the ball under control on the ground, and passing quickly and always forward the other players while on the move.

CORINTHIANS’ WAY.

At this early stage of the game there was a good deal of uncertainty with regard to the formation of a side whether there should be six forwards or five. Considerable successes were gained by Cambridge with five forwards and three half-backs Instead of two, and this led to the general adoption of the formation which has existed ever since.

I played my first game against Preston North End in December, 1885. The North End team consisted of: Rose, Howarth, Nick Ross, Robertson, Ferguson, Graham, Gordon, Goodall, Thompson, Dewhurst, and Drummond, and guess who were the linesmen! They were Major W. Sudell and N. L. Jackson, the father of the Corinthians.

North End played the Corinthians game with this difference: they were slightly too clever and elaborated too much, and therefore lost time on the way, the Corinthians being quicker getting from one end to the other. That is as far as my experience goes.

At the same time, North, End were the finest side who ever stepped on to a football field, and they were got together by Major Sudell within two years of the adoption of professionalism.

£3 TO £40 A WEEK

We played North End in a charity match in London in 1886 or 1887 at the same time that the London Scottish were playing a Rugby game with Blackheath, and that was the very first game ever graced by Royalty. The Prince of Wales, later, of course, King Edward VII., attended, accompanied by his son, the Duke of Clarence.

I have always had a great fondness for professionals, and I always found them to be just as much gentlemen as any other players. Years ago, I expressed my views with regard to the maximum wage clause.

I held then, and I hold now, that if a man is worth £3 a week he should receive it, whilst if he is worth £40 a week he should still receive that sum. To say that he shall not be paid what he is worth is absurd.

Before leaving all reference to the Corinthians, I may point out that in their December tour in 1884 they played six games in one week, there being 20 players on tour. They beat Blackburn Rovers on the Monday 8-1, lost to Darwen on the Tuesday 1-2, drew with Blackburn Olympic on the Wednesday 4-4, beat Sheffield on the Thursday 2-1, lost to Bolton Wanderers on the Friday 0-7, and lost to Preston North End on the Saturday 1-3, whilst the following Monday they lost to Notts County 2-3.

Our defence was rather weak, for we were without the brothers A. M. and P.M. Walters, but amongst those who assisted us was J. A. Dixon, of Notts County and afterwards captain of the Notts county cricket eleven.

Two of the best inside forwards over played with were Fred Dewhurst and John Goodall, both of Preston North End. Both seemed to know exactly what their fellow-players were going to do before it happened. Their intuition was really amazing, and they actually made openings for the man who was running with the ball.

It is often said that the man with the ball should make the opening, but it is just as much the duty of the other forwards to get into position so that they can play up to him.

GAME’S FINER POINTS.

Along with these two I would bracket the brothers W. F. and R. C. Gosling of the Corinthians and I must record what two powerful backs P.M. and A. M. Walters were.

David Russell, of Preston North End and Nottingham Forest, was the best half-back I ever played against. He seemed always to know what one was going to do, and it was difficult to deceive him. He was quick and had a wonderful knowledge of the finer points of the game.

Two other players I would like refer to are Dennis Hodgetts, of Aston Villa, and Billy Bassett, of West Bromwich Albion. I remember that Nottingham Forest once played West Bromwich Albion in a Cup semi-final at Derby during a snowstorm, and Bassett was so elusive that it was said he hid behind the snowflakes!

That story is rivalled one concerning a game between the Forest and Preston North End. The encounter took place on the old Town ground Nottingham, which was noted for a profuse growth of crocuses every spring. The Forest won, and North End explained their defeat saying that they could not see the ball for crocuses.

Another semi-final in which I played for the Forest at Derby was against Queen’s Park, the Scottish amateurs, and the result was a draw; but when the teams met a second time at Edinburgh the Scotsmen won easily.

ENGLISH RECORD.

I played In 13 International games - five against Scotland, four against Wales, and four against Ireland. I was captain of the team which defeated Scotland by five goals to none at Glasgow in 1888, that being the biggest victory ever gained by England in these encounters, and the first in the last ten played.

I would not like to say that that was the best team which ever represented England, but Dennis Hodgetts, writing about it afterwards, said that it had the finest forward line.

Perhaps the side which accomplished such a splendid performance will be of interest. It was follows:

W. R.. Moon (Old Westminsters): P. M Walters (Old Carthusians), R. Haworth (Preston North End); J. Holden White (Swifts), J. Allan (Wolverhampton Wanderers), G. Howarth (Accrington), J. Woodhall (West Bromwich Albion), J, Goodall (Preston North End), T. Lindley (Nottingham Forest), F. Dewhurst (Preston North End), and D. Hodgetts (Aston Villa).

I was always ready to accept an invitation to play, and the following will give you some idea of the part I took in the game. I played for-

England. London and Middlesex.
North and South. Preston Nort End.
Cambridge and Oxford. The Notts clubs
The Corinthians. The Swifts.
Nottinghamshire and Sheffield and District. The Casuals
The Crusaders and Gentlemen v. Players

At Rugby football I played for Cambridge, Notts, and Old Leysians.

My Jerseys, you will agree, were of many colours.

In all my games I took the greatest delight. My appearance for Notts County proved costly to the club. Their usual centre-forward, James Oswald, was under suspension, and, being in a difficulty about filling his place, the committee asked me to take it. The game was against Aston Villa, and we succeeded In making a draw.

RUBBING IT IN.

The Villa were very annoyed and lodged an appeal with the League, and Notts were fined £5 and ordered to have one point deducted. Notts wore dissatisfied with the decision and lodged another appeal, and there was some consternation amongst their officials when their fine was increased to £30 and two points were deducted from their record!

I also played once for Preston North End’s first professional team, and may I say that I was always very fond them.

It is impossible for me to tell how many goals I scored, but I know I played in matches in which plenty were obtained without kicking one myself. I remember playing a game on Wandsworth Common which I appeared for the Swifts against Clapton Rovers, when Mr. Hughes, the chairman of the Swifts, offered to bet me that I would not score.

I hit the bar, the post, and the goalkeeper, but at half-time I had not put the ball through. Playing between E. Bambridge and Dr. Smith, I had not scored ten minutes from the finish, and Mr. Hughes doubled the bet. Then everything went right and I put on five goals. We spent the evening at the Criterion.

MODERN FAULTS.

In one Oxford and Cambridge match, when I was captain, I went straight through from the kick-off and scored without an Oxford player having touched the ball, and I repeated that performance in a game at Preston. I consider that this should be done more frequently than it Is.

Ball control nowadays is bad, and shooting is as faulty as it can be. Forwards won’t get their knees over the ball. They shoot off the toe-cap instead of off the instep.

Players should be taught the principle of tangents and angles. With a moving ball the players on the wings should have their feet a certain angle, which requires working out, tap it when they receive it, and they would see it go back to the player who dashing through.

From my point of view the changes that have been made in the game have brought about deterioration. The result of playing what is called the W formation is that at least one or two players are often off-side. The forwards should help each other and go ahead together.

TWO REFEREES.

Another reason for the decline is that, for some reason or other, the backs and half-backs play the wrong game. In my opinion it is the duty the half-back to watch the outside forward and for the back to take the inside man. The reverse action is often seen, and it is a mistaken policy.

In a lecture I gave to the Nottingham Forest club in 1905 I dealt with referees, past, present, and future. Old players, in my opinion, make the best referees, because they do their work in the spirit of the game. No amount of theory can create that splendid breath for football that comes from actual practice.

Another point upon which I feel strongly is that referees should base their decisions on the intention of the act and not the mere consequences of it.

NO PENALTY LINE.

Then again, I consider that there should be two referees - one for each half the of the field.

I also hold that the penalty line should be abolished, for players should not allowed to know where they can or cannot trip with impunity. I do not consider it right that a player should able to say to himself: “Inside that line I must not be unfair; outside it I can be so if I like."

I would, therefore, do away with the lines and give powers to referees to award penally kicks tor foul play over a much larger area than at present.

WENT TO SLEEP.

While I was playing Association football I also played Rugby. I got my college colours, and afterwards played for Notts and the Old Leysians.

I also played cricket, and narrowly missed gelling cricket, blue.

Against the Australians in 1893 I appeared in the Oxford and Cambridge team. The tourists kept us in the field all Thursday and Friday and part of Saturday, scoring 843. I remember that afterwards I went to sleep and had to be wakened to bat. We scored 191 and 82 for one wicket, and so the match ended in a draw.

My first cricket match for Notts was against Surrey in 1888, and scored 40 and 7. I also played for Notts against the Australians, and I have recollections of a great catch I made which got rid of Worrall. William Gunn had been placed in the spot where it was supposed Worrall would hit the ball, but instead of doing this the batsman sent it sky high in my direction. I was in a terrible state, but put out my hands and the hall dropped into them and . . . stuck.