Newbs (or Newb-ish) guys you'd like to see in March?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by RalleeMonkey, Jan 29, 2023.

  1. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FTR, I personally would bring a B+ team. These opponents are weak and we want to experiment some. But those experiments can also be better done seeing how they complement some of our top players. That's how they'd be used, and it sets them up for success.

    The Saudi Arabia, Japan, and Colombia friendlies didn't set anyone up to look particularly good because our weak links were getting over-ran. Some wanted to cast blame on everybody and just permanently discard all the unproven players out of myopia, catharsis, elitism, etc. Then at the WC they complained about the lack of depth to spell some of the starters and us still having a hole or two.

    I just don't know what Hudson will personally do in that regard. Rhetorically, and to a degree w/ his actions, he seems dedicate to develop depth + new options. But this will be the 1st competitive test. If we think we need a straight A team to beat El Salvador at home that doesn't say great things about the state of the program.

    We should also think about bringing guys who we believe are up for the grind. We might actually get better results from some of the newer, hungrier players who want to break into the depth chart. Also, players in/from the Americas are going to be more apt to respect CONCACAF.
     
  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Only because we're in a casting a wide net phase of the cycle.

    .......................for Grenada and El Salvador (at home) we can take a B+ group. A lot of A team guys, but also some younger guys on the fringes to evaluate.

    We don't even have to win both games. El Salvador managed to get a draw against Grenada. So if we beat Grenada on March 24th, even a draw at home against el Salvador is enough to advance.

    Then we leave the A team for this summer for either the semi/final of the Nations League or the Gold Cup. Who knows which way a new coach will lean there?

    With the way our pool is, there's a fine line between an A team and a B+ team in terms of talent anyway.
     
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  3. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think where we are disagreeing is how wide a net we are casting. this (last) cycle we started with a handful of guys at top levels, and barely "proven" there. we have 3 times that now. i think a lot of people around here, including you in this case, are sort of stuck in that complete overhaul mindset. not even mentioning the top, top shelf (pulisic, mckennie, etc) the next level guys (richards, jedi) arent going to be displaced either.

    of course there can be injuries, random drops in form- but we arent talking about turning half the (crazy young) roster over, we are talking about replacing the arriolas, the zims, the de la torres. we dont have 3 guys especially close to taking over a starting spot from anyone under 28 (and its not like those displaced starters- if there are any- are kicked out of the pool), yet people are acting like we have to make room for p aaronson and mcglynn and parades right away.

    as for taking a lesser group (to whatever degree) id just say pick a damn lane. you cant say we wont break a sweat here while also acting like qualifying out of concacaf on goal differential is one hell of an accomplishment. yes, grenada is so bad even ferreira can score against them but we barely got 4 points off el salvador this last cycle.
     
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  4. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know why Balogun would commit for a superfluous tourney 3 and a half years before the next WC. Have to think he'd at least wait to see what England's interest is until Copa America.
     
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  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #30 Clint Eastwood, Jan 30, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2023
    By "wide net" I mean guys not on the World Cup roster in November. So we take an "A" group to ensure results, but have some newish guys on the bench. The best performers from January camp, for instance.

    I'm not talk "cast a wide net" to really fringe guys. That's what friendlies are for (like the two we just had). I'm talking guys that are knocking on the door to being considered part of the A team anyway. And since the domestic guys just had January camp, I'd try to take some of these B+ players from Europe. Like a Taylor Booth, Bryan Reynolds, etc.

    [The U20s have a camp, so it could be that many of the best U20s that I'd really be interested in won't be available.]

    This early in the cycle, I'm never fully at an absolute full strength USMNT. We should be expanding. I personally wouldnt have an absolute full strength squad until the 2024 Copa America.
     
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  6. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know if it's true that we barely got 4 points off El Salvador. At no point were we were we ever in danger of losing either of those 2 games. I know we only won the home game 1-0, but we were very much in control during that entire game. And similarly we were unlucky not to win the road qualifier against them.

    More broadly now is the the time to cast the net broadly if there's ever a time in the cycle. It's also a good time to give some good run to guys like Scally, who are part of the A team but who isn't going to play a ton if Dest is there.

    Not sending the A team doesn't mean send the team from January camp. We should still include guys like Reyna, Richards, Robinson, LDLT, etc. And people like Booth who are playing very well in Europe.
     
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  7. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, what style & personnel wins at the highest levels for the US, is not necessarily what does against organized, merely respectable CCAF sides.

    For example, we should be dropping bunker-breakers like Gio into midfield and Zendejas on the wing, over a vertical threat into 0 space like Weah, and 8's/10's who aren't very goal-dangerous like Musah.

    And I don't know if playing Zimmerman serves us when we won't face an offensive threat. So something like a McKenzie-Ream pairing may suit us.

    At striker, we need goals, and competitively Sargent has still produced against nobody better than Cuba. El Salvador is a tier or two above that. So a Pepi, Vazquez, or Dike may be the winning call. Even though some think Sargent is the #1.

    In the 2nd January camp we had more the mentality of trying to pick up a win. That entailed playing the most vets. Can't say the Zimm-Long pairing helped us function in the build-up though. So what wins is not always the most experienced. You have to pick your spots. We also struggled because of an unproven Aaronson couldn't progress & win physical battles. But he was sub-par in MLS. Our experiments here could have some proof for club and/or country to improve our efficacy.
     
  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    We were definitely closer to getting six off of El Salvador than ever losing, but our struggles to score mean a tie is pretty possible. That's okay in this window.

    That said, I don't really see the point in a blanket resting of the "A team." I understand if individual players feel they need a rest, or there's a knock, etc., but I think our fanbase is odd in that people don't really often want the team to play together.

    There's the very real reality that we have an interim coach and the new coach will change something up, I am sure. But that said, there's still a lot of value in bringing in a decent % of A team players.

    For one, this team could use some wins. For two, we've seen how a camp where you experiment too much leads to an inability at times to really determine quality, especially at some positions like striker.

    I think you should have a decent chunk of the A team.
     
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  9. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Based on European club play, I'd like to see Trusty, Paredes, and Booth, and Balogun if we can get him. Scally (new-ish) should get minutes.

    From January camp, I want to see Vazquez, Zendejas, Jones, and Slonina. I can take or leave Tolkin; he showed some real bite, but he could use another season in MLS to continue improving his tactical awareness.
     
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  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Paredes is the interesting one.
    He's trained with the U20s for much of this cycle as they prepare for the U20WC.
    If he wants to go to that event, he'll be with the U20s in March.

    [Slonina, on the other hand...............is eligible for the U20s, but hasn't been playing with them.]

    I'm not quite sure why Balogun would make his one-time switch in order to play against Grenada and El Salvador in March. :) If he wasn't provisionally cap-tied to England, he'd probably already have been in a US camp to check it out.

    I'll go on record. Balogun will be capped by the full England national team in 2023. Maybe in their qualifiers against the likes of Malta and North Macedonia. England let Musah get away. They're not going to let Balogun get away.
     
  11. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hence "if we can get him."
     
  12. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no, els was never a threat to beat us, but dropping points to them is dropping points period. did we even have 6 shots on target in the two combined? im tired of arguing that shit, if you think we did totally fine against them then great.

    i agree completely that using scally "over" dest is the sort of thing we should be doing (say dest gets els and scally gets grenada). i dont agree this wide net stuff has anything to do with real matches, and i dont agree that its all that important to really work out whos better between gressel and jones- neither of them are clearly better than yedlin and moore, and thats before you add reynolds to the mix.

    at some point these guys have to make a genuinely compelling-overwhelming case at the club level, and theres no one freaking close to dest/scally. i dont care how low-level and/or "un/important" people see nl, gc, etc see those few real matches we have, but they arent the place for auditions. i doubt brooks lennon or...brooks lennon west (the guy at rsl) would be completely overwhelmed by grenada- it doesnt mean we leave dest and scally home cause we dont "need" them this round (not attributing that line of thinking to you).

    as much as people are going a little nuts over the copa and the change to play high level comp, theres also something to be gaining by kicking the shit out of grenada, and learning to/keep doing to the same to el salvador. i mean, im pretty tired of hearing about higher levels when its not like we are dominating at this lower level.

    i agree with what youre saying re dest and scally, id add (for example) cowell v arriola as a rare actual competition now that will likely become apparent over the next couple of years. there are places we can/need to put pressure on the incumbant sr team players. i dont agree with sacrificing the few chances there are (period) for our "first team" to get matches together, much less giving kids who may or not not have a real case three years from now minutes today.

    obviously we are going to differ in our evaluations of individual players, and my original post is some of the guys who i see as pretty close right now. thats my entire point. unless we make up some other non-fifa window sorry, but zendeja, gomez, aaronson etc will have to wait til next jan or significantly raise their club level.

    ...of course there are still caveats. i get some people just want to cap-tie guys, whatever. and aaronson likely wont be playing more than reserve team ball until hopefully a loan at the beginning of next season so what is the argument for him getting minutes with the sr team?
     
  13. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn't call Arriola up for March, but I would say that at least for now Arriola is the much better player in MLS. I want to see Cowell take what he showed in that first game and start showing it on a consistent basis in MLS. Cowell obviously has a really high ceiling, but I want to see him show it on a week to week basis.

    He looked great against Serbia. Having watched all of U20 World Cup qualifying, I did not think he looked particularly good in those games. Someone else mentioned this, but I think he's still at the point where he's going to struggle against teams that sit back (like both El Salvador and Grenada will do), but he looks much better when it's a more open back and forth type game.

    I also generally think the U20 team is capable of making a very nice run in the U20 World Cup this summer. So I'm letting Cowell go to camp with them in March as preparation. The only U20 player I may pull up for March is Parades and that's partly because I think he might start getting to the point where he won't get released for the U20 World Cup (which starts prior to the conclusion of the Bundesliga season).
     
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  14. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    What I think will happen in March:
    Hudson fears Berhalter will be back and does everything he thinks will please him so he can keep his cushy job. He brings in any dual nat he can scrounge up to please fans even if it doesn't make sense in evolving a good team. The team goes nowhere while injuring valuable assetts and souring reltaionships with clubs in Europe.

    What I think should happen:
    1)We leave Aaronson, Adams and McKennie at Leeds to fight relegation. Gio stays at Dortmund to continue his long term rehabbing. Ditto Pulisic.
    2)We take truthful stock of Berhalter's unbalanced midfield (porgressive passing stats for Musah and McKennie are like 24 and 17 percentile) and get some progressive passing into midfield even if it means old vets.
    3) We play 3 cb set because if we don't get it done early, it won't get done and we'll be ambushed by Looie Van Gall again in R16 and go nowhere. Sands has played his best football at Rangers as a 3rd CB and played a little fullback for Deila at NYCFC as injury replacement. Put him on the right with Auston Trusty left CB and stick Zim or Miazga or CCV in the middle.
    4) Give Horvath a game? Not sure about that one.
    5) Give Paredes time with the 3 cb set as lwb.
     
  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The U20 guys should go to U20 camp in March. It'll be the last camp before the actual World Cup, and if the player is intending to go to the World Cup, they should be there unless there's release issues with their club.

    There's enough new players to look at that won't be going to the U20 WC that we don't need to dip.
     
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  16. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've watched enough of CONCACAF to know this is spot on. Small, light technical players will usually struggle and get the H%$# beat out of them (S America too hence Paxten against Colombia). Agree about a bunker buster but necessarily about Weah as he has an absolute rocket of a shot and usually when he plays on the left as on the right he crosses with his right more than shoots. Dike or Vasquez if your going for aerial crosses. Not sure who would be best with Zendejas and Pulisic (rumor is he's ahead of schedule on injury). Possibly even a three in the back with attacking wingers. Three in the back better be very agile if left on an Island. Richards, Robinson (if healthy again) and ?
     
  17. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Call up 30 because Gregg isn't around to restrict it to 26...

    GK: Turner, Steffen, Horvath

    Fullbacks: Robinson, Dest, Scally, Jones

    Center Backs: Richards, Ream, Trusty, CCV, McKenzie

    Midfielders: Adams, Musah, McKennie, Reyna, LDLT, Booth, Mihailovic, Tillman, Johnny or Acosta

    Wingers: Weah, Aaronson, Paredes, Zendejas, Cowell

    Strikers: Dike, Pepi, Vazquez, Sargent*
    *Balogun if he accepts

    "New-ish guys" bolded... the only real surprise omissions are Slonina (others are playing games), Zimmerman (hasn't looked sharp), and maybe Wright or Pefok... Pulisic currently injured, Miles Robinson not fully back from injury.
     
  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    There seems to be a persistent belief that the way to attack a CONCACAF bunker is through really skillful dribbling and passing. In a sort of generic way, I understand why.

    But honestly, because the officiating is terrible and allows for a really physical game, and because away games are often brutal field conditions, dribbling or keeping the ball on the ground and thinking you are going to do a ton of pinpoint work is like ratcheting up the level of difficulty.

    Reyna's long distance shot is an asset, but in general, I think the CONCACAF bunker requires brute force more than skill. Headers, set pieces, throwing people at the net for rebounds. Good news is that there's only a couple teams that can even counter you.

    USA Goals For in Qualifying:

    2022: Home - 16g in 7 games; Away - 5g in 7 games
    2018: Home - 13g in 5 games; Away - 4g in 5 games
    2014: Home - 8g in 5 games; Away -7g in 5 games
    2010: Home - 11g in 5 games; Away - 8g in 5 games
    2006: Home - 10g in 5 matches; Away - 6g in 5 matches

    It's interesting how our home offense has gotten better in general, but we've collapsed on the road as (theory here) I think more teams are bunkering against us.

    So maybe a more skilled approach at home, but more brute force on the road? Maybe not. But I think we constantly look at our lack of pretty run of play goals without realizing much of what we were missing were set pieces and the scrappy ones that good teams get.

    I'd like us to play more games on the road against a real road crowd. I don't know how we get that against someone better than El Salvador at this point.
     
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  19. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. We'll have a good sense of the U20s that'll end up going to the U20 World Cup based on the March camp. Guys like Pepi, Slonina, Gomez (if he commits), Cowell, Paredes, Che, etc. etc. are eligible.

    We've had guys go to the U20WC and the Gold Cup in the same summer, but its been rare. Adu and Bradley did it.

    If we wanted to send an awesome team to the U20WC, we could.

    Paredes, Gomez, Cowell, and Che have all been with the U20s this cycle. Slonina and Pepi are the two that haven't been. But maybe..............Paredes is "promoted."
     
  20. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Slonina was actually with the U20s for their first camp of the cycle, but I don't think he's been back since. I think he's going to be with them for the U20 World Cup though. There shouldn't be any release issues with Chelsea.

    I think it's alot of ask a player to play in both, and the Euro guys do need some offseason of some sort. It's less of a big deal for MLS guys since they'll be playing games no matter what, but if I were an MLS team I'd be upset about sending a guy to both.
     
  21. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The other thing is that the crowd against the US in game one was much different than the crowd that was showing up later in qualifying once it was clear they had no hope.

    There's a certain amount they get up for the US (or Mexico), but the crowd for Nations League for instance was nowhere near as intense as it was for the first qualifier.

    If you flip the Costa Rica and El Salvador qualifiers, I think the US gets at least a point against Costa Rica and wins against El Salvador.
     
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  22. eagercolin

    eagercolin Member

    Metro
    United States
    Aug 25, 2017
    Buffalo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, It seems like there's different skill sets involved. It's weird watching a team I was pretty sure could hang with England struggle against Concacaf scrubs.
     
  23. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Depends what said U20 is doing. And sometimes a club wants to put a young player in a window.

    Bradley in 2007 was excellent. Was on the 2007 Gold Cup roster that ended up winning the title over Mexico (the Feilhaber goal game). Key player. Started the semi victory over Canada, but unfortunately got a red card late in the match (so couldn't play the final). Then played wonderfully for arguably the best U20 WC run we've had. [The 2-1 victory over the Cavani/Suarez-led Uruguay in the round of 16 is my favorite U20 match ever. 2nd might be the absolute demolition of Poland in the group stage. 6-1.] I realize making a U20 quarterfinal is now old hat, but it certainly wasn't then.

    Went from one tournament to the other. No problem.

    If newer fans want to know why people were so insane about the young Michael Bradley, watch the summer of 2007.

    [Also if you want to know why people were crazy about Altidore, watch the 2-1 victory over Brazil in that event. A Brazil team featuring Marcelo, Willian, David Luiz, Pato, etc.]
     
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  24. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The 2024 Nations League qualifies teams for Copa America, not this one.
     
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  25. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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