Copa America 2024 - General Thread

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by KRCSoccer, Oct 13, 2022.

  1. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #151 Nico Limmat, Jan 29, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
    It's a shame that Conmebol once again sold their soul for cash, but in the end it's their decision where to play their tournaments (and it's up to South American fans to voice their displeasure).

    Having said that, my focus lies on the FIFA calendar treatment for the Concacaf guest teams. If FIFA want to have any resemblance of an impartial regulator, they will not add this competition to the (Concacaf) calendar without some adjustments.

    Otherwise we are looking at seven consecutive years of mandatory player release for major tournaments:

    2021 - Gold Cup
    2022 - World Cup
    2023 - Gold Cup
    2024 - Copa America (special edition for Concacaf?)
    2025 - Gold Cup
    2026 - World Cup
    2027 - Gold Cup

    It's madness. Plain and simple. At the very least Concacaf needs to take one of the Gold Cups off the calendar. Go ahead and hold it if you want, but without the player release protection. I am well aware that the clubs have their own agenda, but they are right to be livid about this (and not just the European ones).

    Now you may say that associations and clubs can negotiate and no player will be called up seven years in a row - but that's not the point. A regulatory framework has to make sense on paper. If you have a sensible employer you should not get called to the office on the weekend, but don't you want that time off to be secured (by employment law) rather than be subject to some arbitrary negotiation?

    Over to FIFA. Let's see if there is a shred of impartiality left (Ha!). Clearly Conmebol and Concacaf think they can get their way once again after the 2016 Centenario.
     
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  2. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    They could call it, oh I don't know, the Copa Interamericana...
     
  3. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #153 HomietheClown, Jan 29, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
    In most cycles you may have a point but keep in mind the proper context. CONCACAF had a whole COVID year of nothing happening.

    And now with the World Cup coming up in the region players want and NEED to play as many competitive matches as possible. There will be absolutely no going to Human Resources saying I need time off. It is more like a Company that lost precious time because of a pandemic doing their best to get things back to normal and to make the company survive and look good when the lights go on for the big event.
     
  4. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    The last time I checked Concacaf (and CAF) are still cranking out twice as many (player-release protected) international championships compared to their peers.

    But I know your (non-critical) stance on the matter.

    Say we waive this one through in the name of 2026 World Cup preparation, how do we respond when Concacaf/Conmebol inevitably knock on the door once again for the 2028 Copa America? Are you then in agreement that - at the very least - one Gold Cup needs to be shaved off the calendar?

    Also, if this is supposed to be the "test event" for 2026 then the 2025 (expanded) CWC should be hosted somewhere else. If FIFA are moving heaven and earth to have another major tournament under their banner, then it should not be in the same confederation as the World Cup. Spread the events around. I say give it to Conmebol (Brazil) to lessen the sting of losing the 2024 Copa.
     
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  5. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    We will cross that 2028 bridge when we get there. I just want to focus on this cycle not future cycles.

    As for your question about the Gold Cup if it becomes once every four years I would not have a problem with that. If it stays twice per cycle I do not have a problem with that as well.
    Whatever the Confederation decides is whatever they decide.
    But unlike you I can see the benefits and positives of having two per cycle and not just focus on the negatives.

    The Club World Cup can go anywhere FIFA chooses and if they think the USA is the best place to have the inaugural one and make money then there's not too many alternatives.
    I do not think European markets care about hosting this new experiment.
     
  6. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    But what about two Gold Cups and a permanent Copa America on the Concacaf calendar per cycle?

    Is that too much? Well, is it?

    Just once it would be nice to get a clear answer from you.

    How much is too much? Do you have an answer to this question?
     
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  7. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Glad you think my opinion matters much on the subject pertaining what Confederations do.

    I have always been clear on my opinion on Continental Championships and International competitions.

    Whatever the Confederations decide is best for them is their business and I will not judge harshly on their decision. It is their business.
     
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  8. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Yes, but we are talking about the FIFA decision.

    Should two Gold Cups and a permanent (joint) Copa be on the FIFA calendar? Yes or No?
     
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  9. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    My personal opinion is Gold Cup, Copa America and then making one of the Gold Cups a Pan-American style Cup with mixed teams from both Americas.

    I love international Futbol and I love both CONCACAF and CONMEBOL,

    Don't know if I can answer your question anymore clear but whatever the Confederations decide along with FIFA's approval does not faze me either way.
     
  10. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    So you agree that two national team competitions should be the max per cycle per confederation on the FIFA calendar. Glad we cleared that up.

    Of course your proposal once again increases the burden on the South American players.
     
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  11. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I do not agree with any max. I personally would just blow the whole thing up kinda like what Wenger wanted to do but that has nothing to do with this thread.

    Adding a small Pan-American tournament is not going to add any burden in fact many teams would like having meaningful competitions instead of just playing the same friendlies over and over.
     
  12. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Your approach (and Wenger's) will eventually lead to the destruction of the sport under a single system of governance (FIFA's). After that the big clubs will reign supreme like in other sports. National team competitions will either be owned outright by the clubs or their standing will suffer significantly as there won't be a "FIFA calendar" to enforce the release of players. But the greed of FIFA and the confederations (and yours) make this outcome inevitable.
     
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  13. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Thanks for jumping to conclusions, making sweeping generalizations and having a crystal ball to see what the future is like in a World of FIFA calendar apocalypse.

    You make it seem like I am stroking a cat in a subterranean layer looking for Futbol's version of 007.
     
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  14. DrScorpio

    DrScorpio Member

    San Lorenzo
    Argentina
    Jan 6, 2022
    Really boring, just the idea of merging the two federations and having a WCQ Uefa style would be bad, Argentina or Brazil playing teams like Aruba or Dominica sounds awful.
     
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  15. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Well, when you keep cheerleading Blofeld lookalike Infantino, it’s difficult to arrive at any other conclusion. :D

    Just once I would like to hear a proposal from you on how to protect the interests of clubs. Like it or not, they are the main stakeholders in this. Remember, they are the ones who pay the players’ salaries. You constantly cite “commercial realties” when it suits you (typically when trying to convince us why X tournament should be hosted in the USA), yet ignore the most important commercial reality of all. Players are club players first and foremost.

    Assuming you agree that FIFA should be a somewhat balanced regulator in the hierarchy of football governance, how do you think the interests of clubs should be protected?

    A clear answer will do. Thank you.
     
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  16. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I had in mind keeping the two confederations separate when it comes to WCQ.
     
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  17. jesta

    jesta Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    he obviously has no clue about football, you can ‘t really expect him to understand where the whole crap leads.
    so try something easier for the start, let ‘s see if he knows what offside is:D
     
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  18. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Club teams already have too many protections and play way too many matches and tournaments that are unnecessary.

    National teams especially in the Western Hemisphere have to bend over backwards and do a lot less than what they used to in order to appease the Leagues.

    We have had this discussion in other threads but when it comes to Gold Cups players are typically not called up for back-to-back tournaments. The Gold Cups the year right before the World Cup usually has experimental lineups and scrubs from the local domestic leagues so your premise is flawed.
     
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  19. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Ha.

    Says the guy who thinks there's no World Cup quality stadiums in 2026 in the United States.

    :ROFLMAO:
     
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  20. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    The club calendar hasn't really changed much in 50+ years. In Europe, for e.g., almost every country has kept the same competitions largely unchanged, namely domestic cup + domestic league, with the best playing int'l competitions.

    I guess there hasn't been much change at the national level yet either, but some of these proposals for the near future are pretty dramatic (entirely new comps, doubling the number of existing comps, etc.). And you can't really expect the # of club games to be cut down to make room since that is the bread and butter of the sport. the players, fans and money doesn't exist without it.
    One also has to keep in mind that 99+% of professional footballers don't play at the NT level, so cutting down on their workload because <1% of the workforce has to play some extra games thousands of miles away doesn't make a ton of sense.
     
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  21. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    You can't really blame the clubs for applying soft pressure to player release situations with these calendar shenanigans. And don't get me started on biennial nations cup tournaments that somehow four out of six confederations can do without. Even the tiny OFC! Here is a crazy idea. How about we have less events and instead higher quality ones?

    Anyway, you and I will never see eye to eye on this subject.

    Over to FIFA and their spineless non-scrutiny, followed by the expected rubber stamp.

    Given the trumpeted announcement Infantino must have already given his word.
     
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  22. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Waiting for someone to say this.

    Since when do we all sign-off on more money usually make futbol better? After watching that corporate event in Qatar, I think we need less of that and more tournaments being played in countries were passions are more pronounced.

    It FUNNY to South Americans that this may NOT be considered a true combined CONCACAF and CONMEBOL because CONCACAF teams are only "invitees" and the Gold Cup will still be played with their teams . . . because WE ALL KNOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF both Cups are combined, don't we?
     
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  23. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    It just goes to show how many people still believe in trickle-down economics, even in cases where the institution is extremely corrupt at the top.
     
  24. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Half of all EURO revenues are distributed directly to all member associations in solidarity payments through the Hattrick programme, so it is incorrect to suggest that more investment - whether by clubs in their first team or academies or by national associations in infrastructure, equipment, coaching and capacity building - does not improve football.

    The countries which lack investment can largely be found towards the lower part of the FIFA ranking!
     
  25. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    You are trying to solve a problem that does not exist.
    CONCACAF players and clubs are not angry over the current calendar.

    I am critical of FIFA as much as I am Club teams. I do not agree with everything FIFA does so that is also a false premise I disagree with.
     
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