Netherlands Officiating Discussion

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Orange14, Mar 9, 2021.

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  1. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Here are the highlights from today's Ajax - PSV game with Makkelie as the CR. He really had a poor game IMO. He let a lot of stuff go on without even giving a simple warning to a player (shades of the EPL)

    4:15 - bad tackle that led to a melee on the pitch and the offending PSV player was not cautioned nor even given a warning. The YCs were for two players involved in the fight.

    6:50 - hard arm to the face of the Ajax striker and again no warning or caution

    10:20 - is the interesting VAR call to review what Makkelie thought was a clear PK. On this one I don't fault Makkelie as virtually every CR given the angle on the field would likely arrive at the same call. Still it is an interesting call by VAR as the Ajax defender is a bit behind the PSV attacker but he did get the ball.

    Though I will not be planning on watching any of the corrupt slave labor built Qatar WC, I do hope Makkelie gets his act together and has a good tournament. I've been disappoint with him this season as I noted in the previous post.

     
  2. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    4:15 - looks like he gives both the tackler and the subsequent pusher the cautions and nothing from the scrum.

    6:50 - it is a strange situation. The attacker turns without looking and is heading straight for the defender (though I don't think he knows it).
    Defender throws hands up to protect himself and attacker just happens to turn head at same time.
    I could go either way here, but if he addresses it, he has to caution and it would be the second yellow for #4.

    10:20 - still looks like a PK to me.
     
  3. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    @Sport Billy - thanks for the comment on the PK ruling. I found it hard to figure out and we had the best Dutch VAR (van Boekel) and CR Makkelie on the call. Go figure.
     
  4. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    If he gets a touch, it is minor. The touch/non-touch is just luck at that point.
    It does not negate that he was careless.
    He is fouling the player before making contact with the ball.
    Screenshot 2022-11-07 at 8.27.09 AM.png
     
  5. Yup, same to me. I think he trips the leg first and then "touches" the ball. I think, given the continued spin of the ball, visible by the markings on it, the defender didnot even touch it.
     
    Sport Billy repped this.
  6. Time for some referee fun from the Netherlands!
    Use google translate if interested:D
    https://sportnieuws.nl/voetbal/binn...er-omwonenden-nieuwbouw-huizen-last-overlast/

    WAT? ‘Amateurscheids in Hulsel moet zachter gaan fluiten om overlast te voorkomen’

    9 november 2022
    Welkom in bananenrepubliek Nederland.

    WHAT? 'Amateur referees in Hulsel should whistle softer to prevent nuisance'
    November 9, 2022
    Welcome to banana republic of the Netherlands.
     
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Here is a RC call in a Dutch second division game between Young Ajax and De Grafschaap. Could be one of the worst calls I have ever seen.

     
  8. So he's not available for the FC Twente match!!
     
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He wasn't going to play in it. Several players did not play in this game as they are with the first team today.
     
  10. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The Dutch FA agreed with me that the RC given to Hlynsson in the clip above was wrong and overturned the decision!!!
     
    gaolin repped this.
  11. The most difficult match for a ref is on this sunday, Feyenoord - Ajax.
    The referee choice has raised eyebrows. Use google translate if interested:
    https://www.feyenoordpings.nl/wel-gozubuyuk-geen-makkelie-voor-klassieker-dat-is-toch-apart/
    Feyenoord Nieuws
    Wel Gözübüyük, geen Makkelie voor Klassieker: "Dat is toch apart"
    Vandaag, 09:16
    door Berthil
    bron: De Telegraaf

    Mario van de Ende is verbaasd over de aanstelling van Serdar Gözübüyük voor De Klassieker. De oud-arbiter had liever Danny Makkelie gezien als leidsman aankomende zondag.

    "Het is de meest beladen en daarmee de moeilijkste wedstrijd van het seizoen", zegt Van de Ende in De Telegraaf. "Wat is er dan logischer om de nummer één scheidsrechter van dit moment, Makkelie, daarvoor aan te wijzen? Op de een of andere manier gebeurt dat toch vaak niet. Nu fluit de nummer één Excelsior-FC Volendam. Dat vind ik toch apart"

    Van de Ende plaatst direct een kanttekening bij zijn eigen mening. "Je kunt niet altijd dezelfde scheidsrechter dezelfde wedstrijd laten fluiten, omdat hij de nummer één is." Gözübüyük staat bovenaan de elitelijst en fluit veel Europese wedstrijden. "Dan is hij ook een uitstekende kandidaat om De Klassieker te fluiten. En reken maar dat hij tot op het bot gemotiveerd zal zijn."
     
  12. An unfortunate wrong call by the VAR in the Feyenoord - NEC match. The VAR called the ref to the screen, after he gave a penalty to Feyenoord and the player who caused the penalty a yellow card. After looking at it he then changed the card into red.
    Looking at the situation I already thought that's a weird decision.
    Now the KNVB has rescinded the red card, which unfortunately doesnot help NEC, because they had to play for a half match with 10 men.
    Shouldnot this be a reason to have the match start over again from the point of the red card?
     
  13. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Laws of the game

     
  14. Yeah, I know it's the rule of the law, but sometimes the rule of the law leads to injustice.
     
  15. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    As far as direct impacts, it would be ridiculous, impractical, very costly to replay every game in which a referee gets a big decision wrong, or in which the VAR plays a role in a wrong decision. That's not even talking about the indirect impact of such a policy, which would be fans whining about replaying the game every time decisions don't go their way.

    Sorry, but referees make mistakes. VARs reduce the frequency of severe mistakes, but they still are a part of the game. Players and coaches have to find a way to deal with the chance that one goes against them.
     
  16. Yesterday I saw 3 non VAR interventions in the Eredivisie that should/could have been penalty decisions.
    I've no video footage of it (yet?).
    The first one was in the fc Volendam vs Sparta Rotterdam match when a Sparta attacker was fouled in the box heading to the goal keeper.
    The second one was in the PSV vs Fortuna Sittard match, in which the goal keeper didnot control a backpass well and bounced it up and tried to use his hand to prevent the ball from bouncing towards the opponents attacker, which failed and the attacker scored. The goal was disallowed because the attacker too used his hand to control the ball, but the handsball by the goalie was ignored. This should have been an indirect penalty kick just 2-3 meters from the goal.
    At the score PSV being 1-0 down it could have ment 2-0 down and that would mean Ajax could close the gap for the 2nd spot=CL football to 2 points.
    The third one was in the Feyenoord vs Go Ahead Eagles match that sealed the title race for Feyenoord. At the score 0-0 the GAE attacker chased by the Feyenoord defender changed direction right into the path of the defender, which made him fall over the attacker, who then lost his scoring chance. Nor the ref or the Var judged it to be a foul. I'm not so sure about it being correct.
     
  17. On Dutch espn there's an interesting item with Makkelie. They follow him during a match, so we get an impression on how the interaction between the ref on the pitch and the VAR takes place. This week was his refereeing the important Ajax - AZ Alkmaar match.
    The series is called Extra Time with Makkelie.
     
  18. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    The VAR seems to give a lot of advice that goes beyond “check complete” and “I recommend a review.”
     
  19. There are on youtube similar items with the other Dutch refs, giving an insight how they operate. These might be interesting for those keen to see how various ref/VAR combo's operate in the Dutch league.
    Search in youtube with "extra tijd espn" to get the other items.









    7107
     
  20. Most of the times you can have subtitles, but unfortunately these are only in Dutch, unless there's a way to get them in English too that I don't know about.
    However for those really interested in the communications the VAR and the ref have and willing to put in the effort, you could simply activate the subtitles and pause the vid so you could use another screen/I-pad or so to type the Dutch text in google translate to get what was being said.
     
  21. AD Sportwereld published their ranking of the season 2022-2023:
    The score is the average of the season ratings with the number of matches between ().

    1. Danny Makkelie 6,54 (25)
    2. Serdar Gözübüyük 6,40 (24)
    3. Edwin van de Graaf 6,28 (18)
    4. Jochem Kamphuis 6,25 (20)
    5. Allard Lindhout 6,17 (25)








    7398
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  22. And Makkelie Ref of the Year for AD Sportwereld:
    upload_2023-6-6_20-53-6.png
     

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