2022-23 England Referee Discussion [EPL/EFL/Cups+][Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jul 27, 2022.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He seems like Pawson with better posture.
     
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  2. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    It is only his first month on the FIFA list. Very few of the now established guys like Oliver and Taylor were top class during their first year.
    He may not be WC quality now, but he has 10 years to develop which is plenty of time. Not many people get 10 years on the FIFA list. I expect he will soon move up and get good games internationally, not just the Andorra v. Faroe Islands level which many of the 3rd and 4th string guys end up doing.

    PH
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just a no call at 58' on an Ake tackle that is oh so England by all parties involved. Probably an easy yellow elsewhere. Amazing what is accepted sometimes. I think Hooper sort of played advantage (though not demonstrably). Then stops play for the Spurs player injury when City gets the ball back. Very weird.
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now anywhere else in the world that's an easy PK and yellow card.

    HAHAHAHA... not given. I mean, c'mon.
     
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  5. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    https://dubz.co/v/01vqcf

    John Brooks intervened for a comparable handball - enlarging body surface to knowingly block a shot with back turned - and predictably PGMOL threw it out as wrong, too harsh, not a deliberate handball. I'm sure that this incident/evaluation (was from Crystal Palace vs. Aston Villa game iirc) was on the mind of yesterday night's VAR. Of course, in the 'real' world: a clear penalty.
     
  6. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    How much time do we give Webb before we start piling on him saying "nothing has changed?" This time next year?
     
  7. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’d say probably 10-12 games into next season. I just don’t see how Webb will be able to make major changes mid-season. First of all, he’s still working through the usual “getting comfortable in the new surroundings” part of the job. Second, it will take a while to change thinking from years of (mis)management from Mike Riley.

    If things don’t change by probably October, I’d say the issue can be placed more at what the PL wants. In other words, look more at the constant.
     
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  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just can't get over the body language and "management" from Hooper here, which seems representative of so much we see right now. Unless I'm mistaken, he quite literally shrugs his shoulders in reaction to the contact. And then, when approached, there's no effort at explaining what he personally saw or why he didn't call it. It's immediately a point to the ear and "we'll check."

    It's bizarro world. Referees are throwing everything controversial on the VARs and pretending that they can fix any miss. Then the VARs don't do it because of the high bar. Then everyone goes back to the locker room and sees it was an obvious penalty. At some point, the "we'll check" move, which works well elsewhere, is just going to have no credibility in the EPL.

    It feels like VAR is making EPL referees more confident but less accurate.
     
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  9. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Solid point

     
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  10. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Just asking for a blue friend, can we start having more coverage of the Championship matches so I can get into the swing of things early?
     
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  11. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A fun offside given from VAR in the 5' of Liverpool/Chelsea. It involves a player in OSP ahead of the ball (but not the teammate who plays the ball) and gains an advantage when it rebounds off the post. Objectively correct but quite odd and needs a solid Law 11 understanding.
     
  12. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    I wouldn't say odd, but yes, does require an understanding of the ball being the marker of the offside "line" at that point in time.

    I was actually impressed that the English VAR figured it out as quickly as they did. Ha.
     
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  13. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
  14. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Welch is a poor referee. I watched her in a number of women's internationals - she can stay 'in the background' very easily and go unnoticed in a game, but when the going gets tough, she is unable to grasp games by 'the scruff of the neck' by issuing warnings, cards etc. (So she has been well-trained by the PGMOL, then! ;)).

    If she cannot properly handle eg. a Netherlands vs. Iceland qualifier game for the Women's WC, I don't really want to imagine what her performances in our professional (men's) leagues are like...
     
  15. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Some short highlights of @RedStar91's protege, Jarred Gillett, refereeing what was a challenging match in the Championship (Burnley vs. West Brom) last Friday night:

    https://fromsmash.com/gillett-burnleywestbrom
    (scroll down and click on the file itself to play the video)
     
  16. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Are you saying this only because she is a woman? Would you say the same thing if she was a man? Don't you think she realizes the importance of her task and prepared fully for it? :D
     
  17. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I won’t presume to speak for @Mikael_Referee, however his criticism of PGMOL referees has been gender neutral to date
     
  18. Barciur

    Barciur Member+

    Apr 25, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    I am biased so I'm not going to say much but so far I feel a little aggrieved at the inconsistency with cards in this game. But it may just be my perception and feeling of injustice but this actually helps me see how perceptions are formed by fans and teams on the field.
     
  19. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In both of the games I watched this morning (MCI-WOL and ARS-MUN), there have first half cautions to coaches. Lopetegui was booked by Coote around the 15th minutes, while Taylor booked Arteta about 30 minutes in. Neither looked like it was something that was clearly worthy of a card given what we've seen a lot of Premier League coaches get away with before the start of the year. Small sample size and all of that, but I'm wondering if one of Webb's first orders of business emphasizing that some of the dissent from coaches needed dealt with in a more authoritative manner.
     
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  20. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    And then you saw the antics of Graham Potter (Chelsea) and Jurgen Klopp (Liverpool) yesterday morning with neither coach getting even a talking to.

    I much prefer today's attitude to yesterday's.
     
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  21. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I haven't had a chance to watch yesterday's games since I was officiating in the morning and shuttling my kid (who did watch the game) around town the rest of the day. But if what you're saying is right (and I have every reason to believe you're painting the correct picture), then I agree with you. It was refreshing today to watch two coaches who think every call going against them is the end of Western Civilization get cautioned. It sets a good example farther down the soccer/football food chain.

    I think Arteta's a very good coach, but he's so annoying to watch on the sideline.
     
  22. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    The last 10-15 minutes give a good example of Klopp's antics. Potter went off the handle in the first few minutes of the match when a Chelsea goal was pulled back.
     
  23. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Yes, I know. That was 100% a joke, hence the ":D".
     
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  24. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    I have never thought that "bring them both over to hash things out" works at ANY level, U-8, HS varsity, or Mens Open. Never seen it work on TV, either. (And, I always cringe when some well meaning local ref tries to force a handshake -- again, at ANY level.)
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Son close(ish) to an SFP red in 28'? Probably not in this league, but it's a good example of something where he is probably off in another.

    And then the 31' penalty shout is very interesting. No real appeal even from the Spurs teammates. But replays show the arm comes across and strikes Kulusevski directly in the head. One of those examples of something that is 100% a foul (and probably a yellow) anywhere else on the field but we don't use VAR in England to give it as a penalty because of... expectations.
     

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