To use @soccernutter favorite manager's world, Tesla is in a downward spiral and, unless some drastic things happen, they may go under $100 by February and all best will be off. I know a few people who are shorting Tesla stocks. I would be incensed if I owned some of those. This is truly mind blowing how PollPot is literally gaslighting his company customer base. I can't recall anything like that in ages.
A number of these founder companies have board voting structures that make it near impossible to get rid of the founder. The Tesla plaintiffs argued that Elmo basically strong armed the board into giving him absurd comp, but because it is linked to the stock price no one complained.... until now It's beyond obvious that any functioning board would demand he stop tweeting today. In fact he already is supposed to have oversight of his tweets because of the securities fraud he did - but clearly they are not able to exert any control over him. What should concern shareholders beyond the brand damage is the extent that he lies about everything. I would be very surprised if a company with such poor governance doesn't have some scandals waiting to happen Tesla is being sued by plaintiff Richard J. Tornetta, who says that the company was wrong in awarding Musk his compensation package in 2018, which shareholders approved at the time. Tesla said at the time it could be worth nearly $56 billion, and the net value today is $50.9 billion. The lawsuit alleges that Musk’s huge pay package was unjust enrichment, and alleges the board failed to meet its legal duty to act in the best interest of Tesla shareholders. The suit describes Musk as a “part-time CEO,” as he leads other ventures. One of the points of contention in the case is whether or not Tesla’s board is truly independent from Musk and represents shareholders, or if he had undue influence on the board to award him such a massive payday. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/16/business/tesla-elon-musk-testimony-lawsuit/index.html
I disagree. For one thing, to me, "intelligence" has so many dimensions. You can be good at math and a poor writer, or vice versa. You can be a brilliant student, but have social blind spots that hinder you. Musk obviously is very, very smart in some areas. To me, he lacks any sense of, I don't know the word, maybe wisdom? He has no perspective. Like I wrote earlier, he has devolved to the point that he really, truly doesn't understand time. He doesn't understand that if he wrote something a week ago, he is responsible for that today. He can't just say whatever pops into his head today and negate what he said last week. And I think this distinction matters. Folks like us, we look at him and see the flaws. His fanbois see his successes. Both exist.
This is common with people who become too powerful No one sets any boundaries or tells him he is wrong. Anyone who disagrees is part of the woke mind virus. It is very similar to trump who inhabits his own delusional world
If you map alll value stocks vs. all growth stocks, you will see a similar pattern, although not so pronounced. I would say that about half that effect owes to overall market behavior, and the other half is Tesla-specific.
This is one of those situations where I think it's good to remember that Dunning-Kruger measures expertise, not intelligence. And there's a huge cult around Very Smart Dudes who use "facts and reason" to presume to understand things they actually don't know much about.
You're not wrong, but he's doing some very stupid things right now. And he's certainly betraying a lack of emotional or social intelligence.
Jon Favreau of Offline argues he thinks he knows everything about how to run Twitter because he is a power shit poster with twitter brain worms
As with Trump, it is surely a very bad sign when someone is constantly lying and spouting conspiracies. When has such a leader ever run things in a successful way? His tweets remind me a lot of Dominic Cummings blog This blog looks at an intersection of decision-making, technology, high performance teams and government. It sketches some ideas of physicist Michael Nielsen about cognitive technologies and of computer visionary Bret Victor about the creation of dynamic tools to help understand complex systems and ‘argue with evidence’, such as ‘tools for authoring dynamic documents’, and ‘Seeing Rooms’ for decision-makers — i.e rooms designed to support decisions in complex environments. It compares normal Cabinet rooms, such as that used in summer 1914 or October 1962, with state-of-the-art Seeing Rooms. There is very powerful feedback between: a) creating dynamic tools to see complex systems deeper (to see inside, see across time, and see across possibilities), thus making it easier to work with reliable knowledge and interactive quantitative models, semi-automating error-correction etc, and b) the potential for big improvements in the performance of political and government decision-making.
Engineers, my God. Smart folk but having an engineer dad and sister (along with knowing several of them), they think they know everything because they can do math. The one smart engineer I knew was also a college professor who's widely respected in the education field. Not to say that there aren't humanities folks guilty of this (Chomsky), but I see it amongst engineers more.
Elmo isn’t even an engineer hes a skilled Propagandist and leader who was very good at raising cheap SV capital that is the main role of a founder in the run up to going public
Well......I should have put some money on shorting Tesla stocks... #Tesla stock is now down to $126 having dropped a further 11.5 points today. This has wiped another $35 billion off Tesla’s market cap (equivalent as the total valuation of Honda). Since Elon Musk has taken over #Twitter , Tesla has lost $317 billion in market cap. The total market cap of Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Volkswagen and Hyundai combined is $313 billion.
It's almost as if Tesla was overvalued and that it should be valued somewhere around the other car manufacturers...
The brand might be toast. It is bad enough that Musk has gone insane, but the board is showing that it also has no compass. If I was a buyer indifferent to road-trips, I wouldn’t buy a Tesla today. Enough other options now.
He can be blamed for the big fall in the stock price, but you can argue it would haven't gotten to those lofty highs and overvalued without him. I do remember as well that one of the big runs in price it had to do with big short players being squeezed. It was either the run from $160 to $300 or the one from $300 to $400.
Full disclosure. I own a Chevy Bolt and a Tesla Model 3. We're obviously hippie green enviro-types and I haven't bought gas in years. The Tesla is a good car, it is still one of the cheapest EVs and as mentioned, the supercharger infrastructure has allowed us to travel up and down the east coast for travel hockey tournaments and family visits. We've had less trouble with the Tesla than the Bolt, which required a full battery replacement due to recall earlier this year. Per the crazy Tesla CEO, I was looking at alternatives. None have the charging infrastructure, and only the VW, Nisson, and Hyundai/Kia are close in price. Most of the others are in the 70k price range. I mentioned selling the car, and got the message from my spouse that if we stopped buying things with A-holes as their chief executives, we'd have to become hermits. We have to separate the product from the current CEO. I don't care if the stock price is overvalued, as I don't own stock. I just want it to stay high enough that the well distributed, always working supercharging network stays working all the time, and expanding. Let me tell you there are a lot of alternatives that generally suck. Imagine pulling up to the last gas station for 100 miles with no gas in the tank and finding out "welp, it's just not working for some reason." Theoretically, the reason that Tesla stock is high isn't because of the cars. It's the software in the cars (that should be outsourced to GM who has terrible software), it's the self-driving software, it's the battery tech, it's the electric engine tech, it's the home battery packs and the solar cells and all the things that can be made with the combination of these things. But again, I'm not expecting past performance of the stock to indicate future results. Maybe Elon thinks that all the liberals have already bought the cars, it's time to switch sides and sell Cybertrucks to red staters?
100% accurate. Tesla's 10-year head start on infrastructure for their EVs is huge. In fact, if they were to start opening up their network to other cars (like they are in Europe), it would hurt them big time as it would eliminate the infrastructure advantage they have. The reason they are doing it in Europe is that Tesla's aren't the best selling EVs in Europe, so there is no competitive advantage to maintaining a walled garden. While this is mostly true, Hyundai Ioniqs are amazing and if you're looking for a new car, that would be a good non-Tesla way to go. Obviously, I would not recommend selling the Tesla if you already have it, but Inioqs, or even the Polestar, is a very near peer to Teslas. While I like my VW, I would not recommend it for current Tesla drivers. It is a marked step down in pretty much every way but build quality and, even then, it's having first EV issues that a Tesla would never have. As for the price of EVs.. yeah.. They are almost all luxury or borderline luxury sedans and SUVs right now. That's where car companies can make the most profit on EVs (or even just make a profit). As they get more and more used to making EVs, they should start to introduce them into the "economy" markets. I have yet to run across an EV station where all of the chargers are out of order. There's generally at least 1 open. Of course, that is going to change as more EVs come out, but the Infrastructure bill is also going to resolve a lot of the lack of chargers out there for non-Teslas. Eh.. Software is only as important as a companies ability to sell them. There certainly is a lot of "tech company" in the valuation of Tesla's stock, but there is also a lot of "only EV on the market" in it too. That part is rapidly changing and Tesla's stock was reflecting that before Musk destroyed Tesla's brand with the Twitter purchase. Heh. I think it is more that, like many people, Elon was able to let the freak fly following Trump. There has always been "questionable" things about Elon, after all, he is a protege of Art Thiel... He just did a better job of hiding it behind a veneer of environmentalism pre-Trump.
To me it's kind of irrelevant how much to credit Musk for the growth of Tesla, or what percentage of the stock plunge is down to him The point is he is clearly damaging the brand and the stock price every single day, and his behaviour is likely to continue or risks getting worse. Why would the board continue to allow this? My guess is they are simply powerless to stop it
Muskovich is becoming big on the border, because he is obviously very intelligent and read on the subject Can't figure out how to run Twitter, Tesla stock plunging through the floor, but always time to help the Senate with the budget https://t.co/4fqBZhEb6J— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) December 22, 2022
Yep! Like his starter wife... She got him to where he was, and then it was time to upgrade to a sleeker, sexier model (who left him).