Qatar World Cup - Oranje Victory to Come!

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Brilliant Dutch, Nov 19, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. upload_2022-12-10_1-15-19.png
    The level of delusion is incredible.
     
  2. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  3. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    I was going to say about this too. After the match Messi also spoke to Van Gaal, probably about Van Gaal's comments about him before the match. We should have won, then it would not happen, and I'm not condoning what Messi did either. Poor sportmanship! However, with 17 yellow cards, that incident where Ake was fouled, then the Argentina played kicked the ball to the Netherlands bench....I would expect things like this happening. The referee clearly lost the control and just like Battle of Nuremberg with Portugal, Netherlands came out on the losing side.
    For the PK, after watching Croatia vs Japan and Brazil vs Croatia, would you start with the strongest kickers first? That would be the 2 forwards, Luuk and Weghorst (both scored) rather than Van Dijk and Berghuis. I would guess the coaching staff selected the order. Maybe it worth a gamble to bring Krul instead of Pasveer,
     
    Deadtigers repped this.
  4. Sumol

    Sumol Member+

    Portugal
    Oct 12, 2011
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    We were rooting for you guys.

    Losing to a team with antics like that cannot be easy. If Croatia doesn't avenge you guys, someone from our bracket will. I've no doubt.
     
    Brilliant Dutch repped this.
  5. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I always said bring Krul for this purpose. I don't care I am holding him as my six sub in ET, just for this. Are you trying to win this game because if so the third keeper never sees any action but bringing him to be the third keeper just for penalties is important.
     
    Rakim_22 repped this.
  6. wynaldaisagod

    wynaldaisagod Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Aug 9, 2019
    Don't think it was posted on here but a WC record 17 yellows! I knew the second half would be really ugly--Argentina was out for blood it seemed like.

    Incredibly Dutch were called for way more fouls and I believe more YC.

    Messi is probably the GOAT but between antics, tax evasion, 'Messi and Friends' fraud in the US and many other things, is not a very likable person.
     
    Orange14 repped this.
  7. nurvin

    nurvin Member

    Feb 11, 2011
    The main problem is that we wil lbe missing a real striker:
    We saw yesterday the impact that a real striker like Weghorst had on the match. He is already 30 and i'm not sure he will go to the next world cup, as he will be 34. Anyway it's still an age that can be good for a striker if we consider that Giroud for France is 36 and still very prolific.
     
  8. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Messi really disgraced himself tonight.
    I get his fellow Argentina goon tactics and cheating having seen many examples of it in the past, but some of that rubbed off on the little man tonight.
    Anyway this reaction was a Riquelme jibe there, and of course Riquelme hated Van Gaal who he played for at Barca.
     
    Brilliant Dutch repped this.
  9. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It all about the tactical setup and the balance within the team which is picked by LVG.
    Winning football is about playing faster in possession and moving off the ball while pressing immediately to regain possession, and we did see some of that with Oranje in the Qualifiers and Nations League matches which was exciting, but there was little of that on display from LVG in Qatar.
    Despite the winning streak or should I say not losing streak, Van Gaal had an imbalanced team and tactics.
    The formation 5-3-2 or 3-5-2, and even 3-4-3 would change at times depending on possession so that gets overlooked a lot, but playing slow unathletic players, or those who lack technically really hurts the flow and speed of play, and that is what we have gotten from Van Gaal through this World Cup in my opinion.
    Blind, Klaassen, and De Roon hurt the flow so badly, and in this World Cup it was so apparent and hard to watch.
    The Wingbacks were rarely involved other the USA match and that hurt badly too.
    Weghorst came in tonight and did very well with his incredible spirit and effort, but going back to original squad selection Van Gaal screwed up taking Wout, Luuk, and Janssen while leaving a better ball handler, and younger more athletic midfielder home like Gravenberch, or a player with tremendous pace and technical ability like Danjuma.
    What a shame this opportunity for real glory has passed Oranje by because Van Gaal got it wrong end of story.
    I’ll say again, and it goes back to the same man who failed to qualify Oranje for the 2002 World Cup despite having a squad full of World Class players, a failure that’s been called the biggest, and, or worst in the history of World Cup Qualification, and that was under Louis Van Gaal.
    If he could not win with that group, well I will leave it at that.
    FACTS!
     
    bunbohue and Jpows repped this.
  10. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Krul is done and rightfully so after he buried himself with Shite play in the first World Cup qualifier against Turkey.
    His moment against Costa Rica was great but he was not good enough whenever he played for Oranje.
    Noppert was the Van Gaal “Penalty Killer” after the wasted nonsensical volleyball coach training or whatever the hell was going on with that foolishness.
    What a gamble by Van Gaal selecting the massively inexperienced Noppert but he is probably cemented himself as the Number 1 GK moving forward.
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Roid rage.
     
  12. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'm rooting against Messi for rest of the tournament, and his club career also (or whatever is left of it)
     
    Rakim_22 and richsavare repped this.
  13. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    One of the big problems with this WC is that teams had very little time to tactically prepare. I think this had an impact on the Dutch as they were shoehorned into a new system that very few player routinely are accustomed to (most play in 4-3-3 settings). As others already noted, van Gaal did not select some players that clearly could have helped and did not employ the bench players in an appropriate way (did Malacia even play a minute or two?). This was predictable and affected other teams as well. It did not help that Memphis was hurt during the club season and was not fully fit for the tournament. Gakpo started well but it looks like he trailed off against Argentina.

    Clearly there were just a bunch of average performances by the team and it's disappointing in that regard. We were spoiled for almost a decade when Sjneider, Robben, and van Persie were in the selection. Three great creative players who could conger up goals. Maybe the 2010 tournament might have turned out better had van Persie not suffered the injury in the friendly against Italy when he was taken out by Chielinni (I think it was in January IIRC).

    So what does this club need going forward? They definitely need a reliable striker. Weghorst is 30 and maybe he has 1-2 years left but that's not long term. Other than Brobbey, who is there coming up? Boadu is in contention for the Freddy Adu award.:( I'm still not sold on Brobbey but he is very fast and strong but he needs to take charge at Ajax. There are some good wing players (Gakpo, Danjuma, and Summerville who is breaking out at Leeds this season) and some exciting young attacking MFs. Frenkie will be good to the Euros but maybe it is a stretch for the next WC. They really need a solid defensive MF. I don't think Koopmeiners is quick enough at the elite level and Gravenberch is really more of box to box MF. Taylor, who was flattered by being selected, is also not a pure DM. The 2010 team had both Nigel de Jong and van Bommel who were solid defensively and van Marwijk could afford to play them as a double pivot because Sjneider was so good in front of them. The defenders are pretty solid and both Ake and de Ligt are still young. vergil should carry through to the Euros. Let's not forget Botman either. There are solid fullbacks with Malacia, Dumfries, and Frimpong. Bakker with Jong Oranje may have an impact but I have doubts about his quickness. Rensch may get there but his recent call up by van Gaal was just stupid; he is not ready!

    Maybe Noppert is the top keeper but Bijlow is also pretty solid so no worries there

    There are some good U-19 players at Ajax who I have watched but I don't know about other teams. Ajax are still in the UEFA Youth Championships so it will be interesting to see how these players perform.

    It's going to be interesting to see what Koeman is able to put together
     
    Rakim_22 repped this.
  14. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Dumfries is suspended for our Euro qualifier against France
     
  15. venema20

    venema20 Member

    Jun 17, 2014
    I don’t think Frenkie is a stretch at the World Cup in 2026. He will be 29.
     
    DutchFanatic, Rakim_22 and richsavare repped this.
  16. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    #1741 bunbohue, Dec 10, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
    Well said! I believe all the remaining teams in quarter finals paying 4-3-3 with the whole team much more mobility and better midfields than Netherlands. It is sad that Van Gaal did not think playing 4-3-3 can win while 5-3-2/3-4-3 takes this team as far as many expected. I do not think that Netherlands cannot play 4-3-3. This is the line up vs France in Nations League 2019 where Wijnaldum and Memphis scored. We can have De Vrij - Van Dijk with Ake on the left or Van Dijk-Ake in the middle (with Botman De Ligt as sub). I'm sure we have better option than Babel up front.

    There were too few of them with Van Gaal, too much passing in the back (Blind/Frank De Boer?). There is not enough creativity, mobility, possesion in the middle to dictate the game. We need a better defensive midfield so Frenkie can play a bit higher with Simons or Gakpo in front, then Danjuma, Malen, Bergwiin, Lang to support Memphis/Weghorst. All quarter finalists show that they can play possession, attack, defend, play compactedly, counter attack fast with lots of mobility/forward pass with 4-3-3. Netherlands can too! This Van Gaal chapter is closed and let's hope Koeman can do better, starting with player selections, tactic and how he uses players (who start, who get playing minutes to show case ability...).

    upload_2022-12-10_9-21-19.png
     
    BaritoPutra and richsavare repped this.
  17. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Lots of different possibilities and potential.
    Perhaps Timber can be deployed as a DM. He certainly has the quality and work rate to win and run with the ball, and truthfully this might help Ajax too even though he’s good defensively he has had a rough go like everyone at Ajax under Schreuder which has become a disease, but let me leave that alone here.
    He did play well the past 2 games with Oranje so hopefully he goes from strength to strength moving forward.
    Frenkie definitely has another World Cup in him but needs the balance to help him.
    Oranje missed Wijndalum badly just as I expected would be the case.
    Gravenberch development will be huge. It’s simply up to him and hopefully his non inclusion for this past World Cup will galvanize him. Koeman needs him.
    Brobbey too needs to raise his game NOW but again I hate to say it the Schreuder Disease at Ajax is real and affects the young talent Brobbey too.
     
    Rakim_22 repped this.
  18. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Not at all Frenkie will be very important
     
  19. His brother at Feyenoord plays in that position and I have frequently posted I trust Jutin more in the midfield than in the defense too. It could be the new van der Kerkhof brothers.
    upload_2022-12-10_19-12-17.png

    The way Loius treated Wijnaldum was disgusting, dissing someone with the Orange Squad resume he has and in the process selecting and playing a nobody like Taylor.

    Brobbey still gives me Benteke, not Lukaku vibes, but he's still young and can prove me wrong.
     
    Rakim_22 repped this.
  20. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The real Messi is coming out now.

    I have lost all respect for the guy
     
    BPBlueSox repped this.
  21. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Time to move on now. There are threads to discuss other teams in the WC and the future of the Dutch NT. They gave it a good run but came up just a few bricks short of a load.
     

Share This Page