Post-match: USA v Netherlands Round of 16

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Over the past 2 World Cup Qualifying cycles, Mexico have 9 road wins in the Qualifiers. The US have 2.
     
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  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    It's not 'trying to say', kid. I had already stated the points I wanted to make. If you disagree, that's cool. No stupid, patronizing cliches are needed. Take care.
     
  3. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    It's such an insane superstition this program has about those games.

    And to a man every USMNT player and coach of the past truly, genuinely believes those games are impossible to win. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Now, CONCACAF qualifying as we've known it will probably never happen again, but still, that attitude is and has always been wrong and destructive and I want it expunged.
     
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  4. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    When people make outrageous sounding claims, like it would've been major upset to beat the Dutch, or it's really hard to win on the road in Concacaf, I like to check these things out. :)
     
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  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Berhalter didin't mirror LVG's 3412 and we got murdered by their wb's including Blind who plays as a cb or dmid or lb. Argentina came out in a 352 v. Dutch and RB Molina ran Blind ragged and scored Argentina's go-ahead goal off Messi's assist. Blind had to be pulled from the game at the 64' mark. He was barely able to walk at that stage. Against the USA, Blind scored an 8.9 from fotmob which was second best for his team after his opposite number on the right, Dumfries, with a 9.1. Blind played the complete 90' while Dest had to be pulled off at 75' mark with a score of 5.6 which was worst for USA field players.

    Molina: Born 1998.
    On 15 September 2020, Molina joined Udinese Calcio on a free transfer until 2025.[6]

    Atlético Madrid[edit]
    On 28 July 2022, Molina joined Atlético Madrid on a five-year deal,[7] for a reported fee of €10 million and €5 million in variables.[8]

    Blind is 32 and Dest is 22.

    If the 10m Molina creamed Blind and Blind creamed Dest, what is Dest worth?
     
  6. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Turner
    Dumfries VVD De Ligt Malacia
    Adams De Jong
    Bergwijn Gakpo Pulisic
    Depay

    I feel like that's the best combined XI I can come up with. It's at least 2-3 Americans, with both CB's and any CF's being Dutch locks and De Jong, Gakpo and Depay being guaranteed spots.
     
  7. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1107 xbhaskarx, Dec 10, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
    Hey why did LVG call up that tall forward who got them two goals off the bench when they needed it, instead of say, the Dutch Jesus Ferreira to look completely out of his depth because he can only score goals against the likes of Grenada?

    But then I guess not every coach is so spoiled for choice that every game at the World Cup they're choosing between bringing on two of their four right backs, DeAndre Yedlin and Shaq Moore....




    Imagine crapping all over US players, constantly saying they're not good enough, while kneejerk defending a coach who calls up such obviously garbage players, and plays them in the most important games the team you allegedly support will play in 8.5 years... some people just have no shame!
     
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  8. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's funny when you're so obviously wrong about something and then go on a tangential rant instead of having some humility.
     
  9. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The US had various degrees of "disadvantage" from small to moderate, entering the game in the following:

    Talent
    Experience
    Fitness/Fatigue
    Coaching

    I don't think the talent factor was key on the 3 goals that Netherlands scored. Each of Adams, Dest, and Jedi have the talent to cover their opposing marks. They didn't do their job due to some combination of fatigue and a relative lack of elite level big game experience (lost focus; they didn't meet the moment) compared to the Dutch players. And Berhalter's coaching weaknesses played a role in how the players were prepared and the squad was managed.

    US teams have overcome talent gaps many times over the decades (for example vs Portugal 2002 or Spain 2009 or even the England draw 2022). They did so through some combination of effort, fitness, focus, strategy, and luck. Just like any team does, including the likes of Japan at this Cup and Morocco on-going right now.

    Going into the game, I felt like the US could win. But the tactical, fatigue, and perhaps big match experience factors let us down. Croatia and Morocco are playing their matches differently than the US, and they advanced farther; they understood their limitations better. The only significant US talent gap was at the #9 position, and that played basically little-to-no role in the 3 goals we allowed. We needed to play that game tight, close, and focused, keeping the score low. We didn't.

    We were a young team, fatigued by lack of enough squad rotation. I have to believe a prime-age roster with (hopefully) improved depth and improved coaching will provide a significant upgrade by 2026.
     
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  10. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reyna, not given the start in favor of Jesus Ferreira who was predictably awful, crushes this goal one week later.


    Tillman, not on the roster because obviously he doesn't know The Gregg System like a Roldan, with a brace against Bayer Leverkusen.


    Sargent so badly injured that he couldn't make the game day roster and Gregg started Ferreira who he hadn't trusted to play a single minute until that point... starting for Norwich a week later.
     
  11. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    Morocco lost to US 0:3 then changed their coach, now it is in semi final of World Cup.
    Change Coach Works!
     
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  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    There was a bigger gulf in talent between Morocco and Portugal than between the US and Holland.
     
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  13. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I don't get the fans who enjoy using horrific language like "garbage", "loser" etc. to describe our national team players. If you talk like a 5-year-old having a meltdown you should probably expect to be treated like one.
     
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  14. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Upsets happen in games. That's why you play the game. Why are some of you taking this loss so personally? Do you expect only positives from US games?
     
  15. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    could gregg manage the netherlands?
     
  16. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    No kidding. And what the living fvck are you on about with 'taking this loss so personally'? Look in the mirror, bro. This a thread for discussing of the game. So, I'm discussing the damn game. What are you so salty about?
     
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  17. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    gregg beat moroco, which shows we are a top 4 team in the world!
     
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  18. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    do you have "5-year-olds having a meltdown" posts saved somewhere, or do you type out a new one every time?
     
  19. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    You're not disagreeing with me.
     
  20. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you know who else craves validation?

    5-year-olds.
     
  21. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Gotta defend the X man here. Gotta love his stuff which I wouldnt find anywhere else without spending all day looking for it. He happens to have strong opinions because he cares.

    X man is just hammering home the point that Berhalter's melt down under pressure concerning the 9 position (how I see it) has some merit based on the available evidence which he is showing us. Additionally he is questioning the exclusion of Reyna quite justifiably.
     
  22. nbarbour

    nbarbour Member+

    Jun 19, 2006
    Washington DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOLOLOLOLOL

    We have a coach that absolutely ZERO other World Cup teams would have hired. ZERO.

    And that’s a big problem.
     
  23. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    I agree with the first part and not the second. No one would have hired Arena either. I’ll be surprised if our next hire is someone other top teams would want.
     
  24. nbarbour

    nbarbour Member+

    Jun 19, 2006
    Washington DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m not necessarily talking about “top” teams. I mean teams in our tier. Top 15ish but not the elite powers. I’d be happy with an upgrade that would be considered by teams in that range.
     
  25. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Sorry what? I would never speak about any U.S. player in those terms. I don’t view it as crapping on them to say we aren’t at that level yet.

    I hope that Pulisic has a Salah like trajectory and learns to play regularly like he did after the restart. I hope that McKennie refinds the form he had before his last injury and goes on to become our Zidane. Musah and Reyna could become well known worldwide stars. But even if this happens, our base talent and skill year over year for every player on the roster needs to be higher if we expect to be an equal to teams like the Dutch.

    At least Croatia or the Dutch seems like a possible target. Not sure how we ever get to a France or Brazil without a top tier domestic league. Nuke MLS like some seem to want and it would be a big step backward if you ask me.
     

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