I was thinking the same thing, except for the burning part. A lot of their game today reminds me of Dutch street soccer. But speaking of burning, the Dutch integration policy for Morrocans has been one of the worst non-violent strategies in the history of human kind. Aren't it now already 3 generations of polarization? It must take some unprecedented mental effort before Morrocan descendants will feel happy to sign up for the Legion of Orange. I wish I could be as proud and blissful as Feyenoordsoccerfan about this part of the world but I'm too allergic to stupidity and victimhood. Enriching the Dutch with Morrocco's number 2, 5 and 8; that's progress, that's cool.
Where do you read from my posts I'm blissful proud of this part of the world? My post was purely about football heritage. I even specifically mentioned the right wing mistreatment of Moroccans as the cause of their (still unjustifiable) violent celebrations. And to make facts clear, Ziyech was on his way into the Orange Squad and wanted that too, but unfortunate coincidence of an injury and subsequent overlook by the than acting "bondscoach" Blind gave him the feeling he wasnot wanted, while he had the precise qualities we were missing.
I think it is a lot better as 15 years ago and also not worse than most other countries (one can debate about the Nordics, Switzerland, Australia but there aren’t more than 10). I saw somewhere a link to an Austrian newspaper showing the Dutch-Moroccans are the richest Moroccans of them all. Richer than all the other countries with a significant diaspora and richer than the ones in Sweden for example (thanks to higher unemployment figures there). Might not be true but it is certainly not too far off. Unfortunately, in the 1960s the then dominant Catholics decided they had to recruit in the mountainous and rural parts of Morocco, and let them have their own culture (analogous to their own history with freedom of education etc.). Not the cities, not Casablanca. It meant a very traditionalist mindset (the Catholic church liked that, even though they were muslims) and (often) illiterate population was imported (employers liked that), later further boosted by the family reunion rights (which have entered european law). Unrest in the cities (involving Moroccan supporters after the match) take place in multiple countries, with different policies. Not only here. NED, Wallonia and Flanders had each different policies and it is everywhere the same nonsense (the worst in Brussels). There is unrest in Qatar itself, in Madrid. I agree with you that those players should be embraced, but those have been entirely born and raised here, their entire (football) education. They are not born abroad. They are not naturalized. A few of the background stories (I had to look up this myself) are quite nuanced. Often it involves the circumstance of being a late blossomer (Amrabat for example was tried four times as a u-15 youth player and discarded early, Morocco said 'thank you', when knvb tried again in late 2017 it was too late).
I don't doubt your sense of justice. From your post I got to understand that the right to feature for the Netherlands is like a sacred right earned by dwelling on muddy pitches through out one's youth. A future Pelé would not have the right to be naturalized, lacking this. "Sorry, but NO THANKS. The Orange Squad has to represent DUTCH football culture and that only comes from players that climbed the unique Dutch football pyramid from amateur to pro club.. The Orange Squad to me is the SHOWCASE of Dutch football and heritage. Putting in mercenaries flies in the face of being proud of your roots and pedigree as a football nation that stands out from the rest. So no thanks.". Here's a lil "020/nose"jab:
This was from Fourfourtwo in September, 2021 after both Rashford and Sancho missed their pk's during Euro 2020 final against Italy. Both came into the game very late. i think both almost did not play in the actual game. This was about the subsitute player who came into the game just for the pk shootout. The magazine went back all the way to the 1982 World Cup Finals for data. https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/does-bringing-substitutes-on-for-penalty-shootouts-ever-work I did not know why the writer seemed to leave a gap in the decade between 1986 and 1996. No player except Strunz ever came into the game and tried a PK??? Anyway, last night both Sarabia and Benoun came into game at the 118th and 122th minute. They both missed, Livaja came into the game around the 108th minute. He missed for Croatia. he should be considered an after 100-minuter mark sub. I checked with AFCON 2021. One late sub scored, but i did not bother to look at every match.
I suppose it doesn't really matter how deep you are. At any given moment, you only need like 30 good players to compete anyway. Golden Generations are almost by definition top heavy.
Many winners had one, that's certain. Italy in 2006 had a naturalized Argentine, Spain in 2008 an important Brazilian etc. (one can be certain such move will be framed in a negative light by the usual corners; "how far the total football academies have fallen"; 'Suriname' not playing for Suriname = bad, colonialism; 'Morocco' playing for Morocco = good; freezing us out of the Champions League over the years, not building up experience) This have been the ones born abroad since 1974: 1988: Van 't Schip (Canada) 1990: Rutjes (Australia), Van t 'Schip (Canada) 1992: Van 't Schip (Canada) 1994: - 1996: Mulder (Belgium), Seedorf (Suriname) 1998: Seedorf (Suriname) 2000: Seedorf (Suriname) 2004: Seedorf (Suriname) 2008: - 2010: Braafheid (Suriname) 2012: L. de Jong (Switzerland), Willems (Dutch Antilles) 2014: T. Kongolo (Switzerland), Martins Indi (Portugal), De Guzman (Canada) 2020: L. de Jong (Switzerland), Wijndal (Suriname) 2022: L. de Jong (Switzerland) * Interesting to note about Rutjes is that he had a Phd in econometrics. Jordi C. never played in his native country, but he truly was born in Amsterdam. ** The 1930s and earlier is a different story. Those had a few (most famously Bakhuys) born in the East-Indies, while the Indies had their own national team (at the 1938 WC; played in orange with blue socks, same national anthem etc.). They had also not the same passport as in continental europe (it had benefits for them, too: they didn't pay income tax). I think this are all of them, if I'm not mistaken. Pretty sure De Guzman has been the only naturalized one, moved to this place at the age of 11 (his brother was until november 2021 the highest capped player for Canada). Here an interesting thread. Some others could have played for us but didn't, Jean-Marie Pfaff for instance (also Bonhof ).
Golden Generations almost by definition implies that the future will not be as good. The generation has to be special or they wouldn't be golden. So yeah, if the immediate futures of Croatia and Belgium aren't so great in the next 5-10 years, that would be understandable. The Croatian teams of 1998 and 2018 are of course exactly 20 years apart, for example. I think for nations like Croatia and Belgium, given the competitive landscape of European football, to be one of the "elite" teams once every 10 or so years is probably a realistic target. It would also help if the 25th-50th best player of each nation are a bunch of young players who can in a few years step up into a top 10 batch of top 25 players, but that's probably asking a little too much.
I was against the Kalou efforts, exactly because of that reason. I was also against calls to select Douglas, after he got a Dutch passport after 5 years living in the Netherlands. They arenot products of Dutch football and as such donot represent the efforts of Dutch football and arenot giving reasons to be proud of the country when achieving successes. With international football you have to go with the flow of what is given you by birth in the country and the efforts made to bring players to top level. This means a player who has spent almost his whole development in our pyramid but was born elsewhere has earned the right by default to represent dutch football, although I personally think they should choose their land of birth out of loyalty. Just look at the Moroccan country, celebrating "Moroccan" success. Their key players are born Dutch/Belgian/French/German and products of those countries academies. 8 players come from the Netherlands and Belgium, it's almost a complete Benelux team. So what's there to be proud of as a country? They did shit for it. The national team has and should be the product of the country itself. Just imagine Monaco celebrating Max Verstappen as the Monaco representative in the F1!
I mean, patriotism comes in different flavor. For some, where you're trained and grew up doesn't matter, especially if there is a recognition that the football infrastructure in your home country isn't very good at all. What matters more is where your heart is. Like, these players may have spent their entire childhood years abroad, but if their heart is with Morocco...if it is Morocco they want to play and win for, then that's all that matters to some people. This is especially the case if the player is also Moroccan culturally. Like, they may play a foreign brand of football, but everything else about them is Moroccan, then its probably even easier for the fans to accept. Reminds me a bit of Sabonis case, whose father moved away from USSR in the 90s. He spent his childhood in the USA before moving to Spain. Had his basketball training in Spain and now plays in the NBA. Never lived in Lithuania, but he proudly represents the country. I suspect its true with other areas of life as well. I know in a lot of Asian countries, it is considered patriotic if you've received your education in the West to return and use that training to try and improve your home country, for example.
All ratings up to and including the round of 16 have been collected. I paste the best averages of players with 150 or more minutes and with a minimum of 6.8. Later I will put the averages of other interesting players who do not reach 6.8. I think it is quite significant with what we are seeing so far. Recogidos todos los ratings hasta los octavos de final incluidos. Pego los mejores promedios de los jugadores con 150 o más minutos y con un mínimo de 6,8. Después pondré los promedios de otros jugadores interesantes que no llegan al 6,8. Creo que es bastante significativo con lo que estamos viendo hasta ahora.
Modric: 6,78 Tadic: 6,74 Pedri: 6,71 Valverde: 6,70 De Bruyne: 6,67 Lewandowski: 6,59 Busquets: 6,52 Rubén Dias: 6,51 Bernardo Silva: 6,49 Cancelo: 6,34 Cristiano Ronaldo: 6,17 Neuer: 5,98 Bale: 5,87
I think I'd probably have to already have a surprising number of changes to this, after just the last 16 games, and others could be pretty close too: GK - Szczesny (Alisson/V.Milinkovic-Savic) RB - Hakimi (Juranovic) RCB - Stones (Alderweirald) LCB - Thiago Silva (Gvardiol) LB - T.Hernandez (Sandro/Guerreiro) DM/CM - Casemiro (De Jong) CM/RM - Bellingham (Fernandes) AM/LAM - Griezmann (Tadic/Joao Felix) RW/RF - Messi (Gakpo/Doan) LW/LF - Mbappe (Mitoma) CF - Kane (Morata)
I haven't watched the video yet, and maybe won't, but I noticed it recommended on Youtube, and here is a selection for best XI so far, broadcast on Sky, presumably with discussion involving other players too but they have ended (I see by pausing at 30:25) with a 4-3-3 as follows: Szczesny; Hakimi, Stones, Gvardiol, T.Hernandez; Casemiro; Fernandes, Bellingham; Messi, Richarlison, Mbappe
Legendary come back by the Dutch ...so far Referee has been an absolute disgrace it has to be said I’ve watched most world cups since 2002 and this has been the most thrilling for me in terms of comeback wins and unlikely victories
Whole stadium went silent at the 2-2. Less than 1000 fans there. Symbolic. (And playing awful - Blind as left back is a joke...)
There English commentator said there are 40,000 Argentine fans in the stadium How can there be less than 1000 Dutch supporters I think Argentina were just that tiny bit better and deserved winners despite the stinker from the ref The penalty shootouts have extremely low on quality this WC Probably the only low point of the entire competition
Yeah, for me, the highlight of the game was when Berghuis gave the ref a piece of his mind. Ref ruined what should've been one of the games of the tournament.
The two stand-out things for me from the game (the second Dutch goal with the clever free-kick at the last minute would be an excellent and entertaining third though): Exceptional assist by Messi (his best in a World Cup game I'd be fairly sure of), but on the other side the other thing is why the lack of focus on the lack of replays/VAR review for multiple 'dark arts' kind of potential red card fouls by Argentina players early in the game (obviously with the lack of replays I can't be sure exactly what I think about them, but I'm not convinced they wouldn't/shouldn't be red cards). So I'm kind of more miffed at the VAR/VAR team than the actual ref even in some respects (potentially like I say). But yeah, Messi I'd have among the top few players now at this World Cup (I pencilled him in 7th in a brainstormed top 25 after the group and round of 16 games already, and before I've checked any ratings or Sofascore metric results I'd say I think that was his best game of this World Cup last night IMO, overall), and while I'd not go overboard (thus far) in terms of all-time placing for a single World Cup (for example he'd be decisively behind Hagi from 1994 at this point IMO), he's surely bringing himself higher up any Alll-Time World Cup selection, in any one person's view (and therefore the consensus) - on that one I'd now be on the verge of placing him above Hagi possibly myself, and while I might or might not change things significantly from my old previous attempt I remember I had Hagi top 30 as an overall World Cup player (with more inclination towards single World Cups and peak displays than some might go with).
Good that you noticed this. There was also a clear foul on Gakpo in the box, of which we never saw a live replay or VAR review either. The 2-0 soft penalty came after an offside. The TV direction was in Argentina's pocket (just as the british media in general, before kickoff - truly hostile they have become. I hope France boots them out, those Messi and Argentina arse lickers - the main comments in The Guardian comments section are also telling here!!). We were playing against the whole world. At the same time, they refused to play, too. Except for 20 minutes. One can be sure this referee performance will be summarized into incompetency, rather than thoroughly skewed performance (freely conversing in Spanish with players who he knows - the guideline of 'confederation neutrality' was deliberately broken here). Something ppl will not read in the media: Oranje fans received the advice to not cheer goals, because that would harm their own safety. Said the Qatar authorities, relayed by the embassies of the respective countries and the Argentine police.