Match 56 (R16): POR : SUI - RAMOS (MEX)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2022 - Refereeing' started by balu, Dec 4, 2022.

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What do you think of Ramos' performance?

Poll closed Dec 7, 2022.
  1. 1 (worst)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. 2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 3

    60.0%
  4. 4

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. 5

    10.0%
  6. 6

    10.0%
  7. 7

    20.0%
  8. 8

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 9

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 10 (best)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He hasn't called that many fouls, but there were at least two instances (maybe three?) with Diaz that fouls could have or should have been called [edit: that's in addition to the fouls that were called against him]. So this isn't made up out of whole cloth.

    This isn't a good performance. If he gets through this it will be because Portugal takes it foot off the gas a little and Switzerland just focuses on trying to claw back the two goals. But a major incident would blow the roof off this game.
     
    TyffaneeSue and USSF REF repped this.
  2. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    I can't believe that the only card here is against a Swiss player, when Embolo has been fouled 4? 5? times - and were they all by Dias?
     
    TyffaneeSue, duality72 and Gacm32 repped this.
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Genuinely wonder if he would have had the ball gone in the net.
     
  4. Ickshter

    Ickshter Member+

    Manchester City
    Mar 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yea, my flair may put some tint on my glasses, but how Diaz got out of that half w/o a YC is beyond me. Wonder if they pull him in the 2nd... I would really like the replay of the Shaquiri nip at Ramos in the 36' where Ramos clearly goes down and he gives the throw-in. If he wasn't touched then isn't that Simulation? I mean they were the only 2 in that area of the pitch.... Seemed really odd to me.
     
  5. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    If he decides it’s SPA isn’t the correct call No card in that situation?
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Once he plays advantage on SPA, no card becomes the correct call. So yes. But the goal is irrelevant at that point.

    Regardless it was pretty clearly reckless. Of course, some pretty clear cards haven't been given so I guess it's just good he recognized it and stuck with it.
     
    mathguy ref repped this.
  7. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Ah. Yes. He played advantage so it’s not SPA anymore. It had to be UB for a reckless challenge.
     
  8. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's just painfully obvious that, at the professional/elite international level, persistent fouling is not a thing anymore.

    I know we talk a lot about SPA, but allowing either one player to foul a bunch or allowing the same player on a team to be constantly whacked is the easiest way for games to bog down and to turn things into a combustible mess.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gee, I wonder why 55' happened.
     
  10. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    And at 54’ we get a plain whistle for Embalo just blowing up a player out of frustration.
     
  11. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Since there’s controversy about this in first half how do you guys usually manage persistent infringement tracking, I literally write numbers on my hand because I’m too dumb to remember
     
  12. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    This is so predictable from Ramos.

    If he wasn't Mexican he wouldn't be on this game.
     
    Gacm32 repped this.
  13. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Embalo is 200% on tilt right now.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be fair, I struggle to name a time when PI/PO was well and truly consistently punished at the elite tournament level.

    The apparent campaign against SPA cards--begun in 2014 and officially sanctioned with a helpful change to the LOTG--is a different story.

    Also, Ramos is on the extreme end of things. I go back to what I said in the Rapallini thread. Overall, we've ticked back in the right direction on misconduct. It's still nowhere near where it was in 2006-2010, but it's better than it was last decade.
     
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  15. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember physical characteristics - red shoes, crazy haircut, etc. I also try to stare at the player or the number for 1-2 seconds to burn that into my mind. When I use communication devices and/or have a fourth, I want the rest of my team to alert me if they see a pattern. "Hey, that's two on #12 in five minutes." "#10 has been whacked three times this half", etc.
     
    gaolin repped this.
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He can't book that. And he knows it, which at least speaks to the fact that he knows what he's doing, even if we don't like it.

    Of course, there's a point where an Embolo foul action crosses all lines. And then what?
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the 59' caution just isn't consistent with what he's given and not given thus far. Swiss frustration could boil over if they care enough (or, I guess, don't care enough).
     
    Gacm32 and duality72 repped this.
  18. Gacm32

    Gacm32 Member+

    Chelsea
    Switzerland
    Nov 28, 2010
    Geneva
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    It seems like every call has been inconsistent. In key moments as well. Was Joao Felix really onside?
     
  19. Ickshter

    Ickshter Member+

    Manchester City
    Mar 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you seriously not putting the flag up because it was CR7?
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Give the people what they want! ;)
     
  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ramos presents an interesting question for 2026. He's more than young enough to go to his third straight World Cup, which will be a home tournament. And he's had KO matches in both tournaments he's already gone to. You'd think, with that resume, he'd be a candidate for the 2026 WC Final.

    On the other side of the coin, he's just not very good. Surely Mexico can find better.

    Will be interesting to see how his appointments look, particularly with what will be a revamped qualification process... I wonder where the big CONCACAF referees will be tested.
     
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  23. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Hopefully some kind of Copa America action will be available to the 3 host nations.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's still probably one game for a Mexican referee. Maybe two. And at that point, the appointment to the tournament has been made.

    I'm asking how you find out who is Mexico's #1 for 2026. Is it Ramos by default or is there an open race again. He was challenged for this tournament and it sort of fell to him because no one else won it.
     
  25. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    It's a problem. What other quality tests would there be? Could something be manufactured that the tabs would care about?
     

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