USMNT: The Berhalter Era pt. 1/ World Cup 2022 /Controversy

Discussion in 'Columbus Crew' started by hardhead, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, that was the US going into the tournament. What changed?
     
  2. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I can't help your reading reading comprehension, man. Look up thread, you'll see bozos saying setting up the win by 3 and 6 goal straw men.

    I've said the team met the bare minimum of expectation in getting out of the group. I'll say it again here for you since you evidently missed it. In doing so they drew an inferior Wales squad, playing below expectations. Against an England squad playing for a draw they blew a golden opportunity, but still managed to get a point. That point put them in a situation where they needed to beat an inferior Iran squad that had a week prior leaked 6 goals vs England. They scored one goal and got through by the skin of their teeth. They played Netherlands, were tactically outclassed and the game was over by halftime.

    It was by all measures a nondescript World Cup performance. Perhaps Christian Pulisic's injury elevates the memory of his goal vs an inferior Iran team that we should expect to beat 9 times out of 10. But there is nothing really to hang your hat on.

    They did the bare minimum expected. They didn't give us a win vs England. They didn't make Holland break a sweat. Either would have elevated the overall feel of this exit. But they didn't do either. It is what it is. We just have people over romanticizing the accomplishments. I understand why some need to do that. I just think it's silly.
     
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  3. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Now do Austrailia. Now do Morocco.

    If you think I am unaware of Pulisic's limitations you are kidding yourself. If you think I'm unaware of Dest's defensive naiveté you are completely wrong. If you think I am buying into the US media hype on these players, or taking my cues from Alexi Lalas or Clint Dempsey in a pregame show, I don't know what to tell you. I didn't even watch pregame. I'd rather unload the dishwasher than listen to those clowns. Do you really think I'm a Matt Doyle disciple.

    Some teams manage to play to a level greater than the sum of their parts. We didn't. There was nothing memorable about the cup. We arguably played below our level in 3 of the 4 matches with maybe the England match the only one we hit or exceeded our level, and even that was a missed opportunity.

    It's a tournament that happens once every four years. On the whole it's a disappointment.
     
  4. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    To sum up, for Kyle. Do you think we played below our level, at our level, or above our level at each of the matches?

    For me:

    Wales - Below
    England - At our level
    Iran - Arguably below our level. I can see the argument for at our level.
    Netherlands - Below our level due to some basic mistakes

    After waiting over 8 years to see the team get back to the World Cup that's a disappointment. Worse squads elevated their performances. We didn't.
     
  5. Crew96Fan

    Crew96Fan Member+

    Jul 27, 2013
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    lmao - oh, wait. You’re serious?
     
  6. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wales - At our level. We bitch that we never play a full 90 minutes, and we didn’t. We bitch that we can’t score goals, and we didn’t. If that had happened in Honduras, in El Salvador, or in Costa Rica we’d roll out the old ‘CONCACAF and Central American games are hard’ cliche and move on happily with our point. If we struggled against El Salvador on the road, then no I’m not shocked about this. Annoyed, dare I say slightly disappointed? Sure, but it’s not unexpected.

    England - Above our level. You agree that we have limited players and a limited coach. So getting a result against a team like that is better than us is not expected which means it’s not at our level.

    Iran - At our level. See Wales comments, except we won.

    Netherlands - At our level. If we’d played above our level, we still might have lost, but we might have snuck a result as well. Instead, I think we played the game we wanted to play against a team and coach that are better and have a higher default level that we do. They played at their level, we played at ours. It wasn’t good enough. If you wanna say we played below our level, I won’t argue.

    Our level is to struggle offensively. It has been for… our entire history? Even with prime Dempsey and Donovan we struggled.

    Other than 2002, when we drew a CONCACAF opponent in the round of 16, we’ve been an advance and lose team (modern era). That is our level. This WC was our level.

    Do I want better? Of course. Did I have a reason to think this was the year? No, and I have yet to see a single person tell me why this year was supposed to be different, beyond ignorance of our competition and blind patriotic optimism. Someone please tell me why this year was realistically supposed to be different.

    We have a decent starting eleven, and a couple decent subs. That’s it. We need to play a perfect game to get to the QF. Literally perfect. That’s hard.
     
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  7. LaMacchia

    LaMacchia Member+

    Jul 12, 2008
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I aspire to, one day, loathe something as much as you loathe the teams you love.

    Please note, I don't disagree with your above summaries, but at the end of the tournament we reach vastly different conclusions: I am disappointed that the US didn't perform better in the group or progress further in the knockout but I'm also satisfied that the US went toe-to-toe with England and then made it out of the group (not to mention qualified at all). You, though, are just finding myriad reasons to be disappointed.

    I'm considering driving to Beacon just to give you a hug and buy you a beer. Cheer up, my friend!
     
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  8. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Turner got the high score for our team from Kicker at a 2.0.
     
  9. Paul171121

    Paul171121 Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Dec 14, 2018
    Some interesting quotes from Van Gaal. Not included were quotes about the US being too aggressive, so he wanted to exploit the flanks. When has anyone ever said that about a US team.

     
  10. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Our coach is not young. I'll agree with naive but the same tactics that got him fired from Swedish second division almost a decade ago were on display. He was the wrong man for the job if the US wants to reach their ceiling. He is the right man for the job if you want safe, expected results.
     
  11. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Did you miss the idiotic homer contrarian jerk part?
     
  12. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    The day you arrive in Beacon the beers and the hugs are all on me, my friend.
     
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  13. Crew96Fan

    Crew96Fan Member+

    Jul 27, 2013
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    upload_2022-12-4_10-16-23.gif
     
  14. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Overall, this was about what you'd expect from this U.S. team. Young, relatively inexperienced, and inconsistent.

    Wales? Looking at what they turned out to be, that was one we should have had. There were probably a lot of nerves under the bright lights of the world stage, and they UNDERPERFORMED.

    England? That was one where we OVERPERFORMED. We were underdogs, and not only got a draw, we were actually the better team in that game. We were more likely to win it than lose it based on what actually transpired.

    Iran? We did what we needed to do. A lot of people expected a bigger number, and they left us nervous in the end, but we did the job. I'd say we just PERFORMED there.

    Netherlands: The scoreline says 3-1, but we controlled most of the match. Just our lack of killer instinct around the box, and our anemic set pieces doomed us. The defense had three big lapses, and we got punished for them. Welcome to the Knockouts. But I would say that both of the Dutch's first half goals were against the run of play. Add to that the Pulisic miss early, and the Wright play where he didn't take advantage of a gaffe (just before the one he did score) and I'd have to say that on the whole, we were pretty decent. And let's not forget that it was a one-goal game at the 80-minute mark. But in the end, we were expected to lose, and we did. I would go back and forth between we PERFORMED and we OVERPERFORMED, because just based on our history, this is usually a game where we get pushed around the field and just try to not get destroyed. Yesterday, we were the aggressor and got countered. That's a big step forward for this team.

    So, just in terms of wins and losses, I'd say the opener was a letdown, and after that, we did what was expected of us.

    I will say this, also: I think a lack of depth hurt us yesterday. The guys we had on the field had played a lot of minutes, and that has a big effect in a condensed timetable. Even though the U.S. had much of the run of play on their side, the pace of the game seemed slow to me. And not much faster when the Netherlands had the ball. It seemed more like a March friendly than a World Cup knockout match. Although the tactics had a lot to do with that as well. The U.S. wanted to manitain possession, and the Dutch were ok with defending and countering.
     
  15. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I'm surprised at your assessment of our performance in the Wales and Iran matches, given your assessment of the Wales and Iran squads before the tournament. You seem to be grading the USMNT on a curve here, which is fine, it's what fans often do. Your annoyance and disappointment with the Wales result is where I move that down a level whereas you keep it "at our level." But in the end we share similar frustrations, annoyances, and disappointments with how the match turned out.

    The England match is different for me. Maybe on paper, in a vacuum, not looking at the other results I could see the 0-0 draw as performing above our level. England was passive all match. They were content with a draw, and we did not make them pay. It was a titanic missed opportunity, and it's difficult for me to say we played above our level when we got a draw against a team that was content with a draw. Had we won that match, I think everyone's opinion of the team's performance this cup goes up a few notches, including mine. We didn't win. It's disappointing.
     
  16. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In coaching years, he’s young. He’s 49.

    I agree, he’s more safe that ceiling, which is why I’m fine only keeping him one cycle.
     
  17. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We struggle to beat shitty Central American teams away from home. Are mediocre European teams on the road easier somehow? Are top Asian teams on the road easier?

    Until we can beat El Salvador and Honduras away, or Costa Rica, I have little faith we’ll ever do more than just get out of the group.

    Our best wins always come on US soil, which will be our biggest intangible in 2026.
     
  18. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    We're better than Iran and Wales. Managing one shot on goal and a draw vs a bad Wales side is disappointing no matter the venue. If we are going to praise the possession based football that so many people found so appealing vs England and Holland as progress, the back 5 and spending the final 15 minutes shitting our pants vs Iran should probably be considered disappointing. Or at least not "progress" in terms of seeing out a match vs an inferior side.
     
  19. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t view the possession against Wales and Holland as progress. That was both teams’ gameplans. When you do what the opponent wants you to do, that’s not great. I know you know that. We’ve seen that with the van Gaal quotes.

    That’s like saying possession against Panama is amazing. It’s not, on this we agree. I was not a US nuthugger when it came to our ‘DoMiNaTiOn’ of Wales, neither were you.

    I still have yet to see a reason I should’ve realistically expected a better result than a Ro16 exit.

    I will say again, we struggle against Central American teams. We came in third in WCQ. Last time we came in fifth. We are not some team that should expect to beat a top team, period. We have no history of beating teams in the KOs rounds other than Mexico. We are better than every team in CONCACAF as well, yet get one road win each cycle in WCQ. That’s not good.

    I heard on Futbol Americas we had 93 touches in the final third, the Dutch had 29. With 50% less possession, and one-third the touches, they produced triple the goals. And our goal was a total fluke. They have superior players at every position and a far far far superior coach. A 3-1 loss doesn’t seem far fetched.
     
  20. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I'm not trying to convince you that we should have expected better than a round of 16 exit. As I said earlier, I think the quarters are likely this team's ceiling and A LOT of things need to go right for that to happen.

    I just think this narrative of "The USMNT gave us a lot to be proud of and elevated the opinion of the program around the world," is overblown. (I'm not saying you fully buy into that view either, just I see it prevalent here and elsewhere). We've been saying this near every cup, bar 1998 for my adult life. And again, I just didn't see anything above the bare minimum expected from this squad, and in some results and performances worse than that.
     
  21. Ch(Elsey)

    Ch(Elsey) Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    May 2, 2003
    Green, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Morning.

    I am still disappointed. I am still proud.

    I recognize the weaknesses. I embrace the strengths.

    I hope Berhalter gets the boot as soon as the best choice to man the helm for 2026 is selected.
     
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  22. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Grudgingly, I think I have to admit that I feel the same way.

    I've defended Gregg as much as anyone against stupid criticisms. I think people who believe Berhalter can't coach are just dumb. Gregg did his job. He won a Nations League, won a Gold Cup, made Mexico our bitch again, qualified for the WC and got out of the group. Great job. He took a bad team and made it good.

    But the consensus seems to be that the Dutch were ready for him and we got outcoached. And now, we need someone who can take a good team and make it great. GB probably isn't that guy.
     
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  23. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The question is, who is?? I don't have a thought on that.
     
  24. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Me neither. I'm not THAT guy.
     
  25. coachchris

    coachchris Member

    Feb 19, 2007
    Galloway, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t want to see Arena, Bradley or any former coach rehired, that would be dumb, although US Soccer is that kind of lazy. I thought maybe Tom Dooley, but he doesn’t have an extensive record as a manager. I wonder if Liverpool is done with Klopp?
     

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