Post-match: USA v Netherlands Round of 16

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    We've never gone to that formation. Berhalter doesn't believe in it.

    It's what we should have been doing for 2 years.
     
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  2. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The degree to which our BigSoccer fan base disrespects him is just baffling to me.
     
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  3. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    One simple diagonal does not mean they can create.

    This problem has been consistent for the entire cycle.
     
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  4. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    it is interesting to watch Spain spread the field on offense and see the quality of their passing when they do it.

    Strong passes with excellent first touch does enable the ball to do the work.

    Egg has us spreading the field about 85% of the Spain level but then our passing is either slow and/or improperly placed and the touch is off - all of which becomes more obvious when fatigued.

    It is good Egg has us more in possession but without better quality and speed moving the ball from side to side - or without good strikers - it seems a lot of work for little result - and today the Dutch were fine with destroying us clinically on the counter.
     
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  5. porkrind

    porkrind Member+

    Quakes
    United States
    Sep 27, 2001
    Bostonia
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    This was clear from the opening minutes. When Jedi was gassed at 70' and probably injured, I was screaming to bring on Scally. If you don't trust your subs, why bring them along?
     
  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Fatigue played a role, but Tyler shouldn't be tired 10 minutes in.
     
  7. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York

    True, but it’s out worst position. Like, we used to say, “We need to upgrade at left back over bornstein/villafana/for some reason we tried Lovitz,” and now it’s the 9 spot where we roll out Ferreira at arguably not his position, or Haji. Sargent or Pepi or Dike or Vazquez or TBD might get there, but it’s a worse problem than our former “our LBs suck” problem.
     
  8. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's always some player that looms large in the collective imagination. I remember when Johan Kirovski was being kept back by coach incompetence, both for the US and by his club coaches.

    There's always players collecting unnecessary hate too.

    Our reality is we have some good players and we get incrementally better, none are transformational. When we have that player the rest of the world will be telling us that, we won't be trying to convince ourselves.
     
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  9. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because we are talking about 4 years from now and not today. And because I watch Chelsea
     
  10. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i agree 100% - Musah was absoultely INVISIBLE in the final third...

    you cant do much starting 2 center mids like adams and musah who offer absoutely nothing in terms of attack...other than go for 0-0.

    this problem was apparent to me years ago as soon as it seemed MMA would be the de facto group.....

    also, these young guys dying after 60 minutes makes no sense to me...wtf....

    arent young players supposed to have more stamina??

    totally naive from the coach....feel bad for the players. they deserved to have an actual manager.
     
  11. neems

    neems Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 14, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which time? Because there has plethora of comments attacking other posters for being “too” negative and focusing on the coach (an obvious limitation).

    It wouldn’t bother me if the stuff didn’t get as hominem. You could predict this just on that end of the last match.

    GB controls the selection and pool. Many were saying it’s too big of a drop off which has some validity but figure out how to find a system that matches the whole pool. Or if you can’t then manage the game better.
     
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  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    MMA's 'creativity' resulted in 3 goals for the tournament. Was that all on them? No, but the central midfield has to contribute.
     
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  13. USSoccerNova

    USSoccerNova Member+

    Sep 28, 2005
    Really proud of the effort our team and coaching staff have put in all cycle long!

    Some good and bad in this match (and cycle), but specific criticisms can wait for another day.

    Looking forward to our ever-improving player pool competing on home soil in 4 years. I remain incredibly confident in the general trajectory of the program.

    Hope everyone here has enjoyed the journey. Time to start getting excited about 2026!
     
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  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Teams in this World Cup averaged 1.25 goals per team per game in the Group stage.

    Pulisic had three goal contributions in 4 games ... that's pretty good for one player.
     
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  15. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He also tried to do too much by himself. He reminded me of Reyna when we was playing in the U17 WC.
    I think is a learning experience for him.
     
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  16. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tired team, that was ball watching way too much.

    You can tell we were tired when Adams doesn't track his runner only 10 minutes into the game.

    Maybe running 8 miles a game for 3 games in a row, wasn't something that was sustainable.

    They finished and we didn't.

    Christian is going to die at age 95, in bed with 2 blondes, and he's still going to be thinking about that early chance....

    It was a fun run though.

    It would've been nice to see how we could've played if some of our best guys were actually 90 minutes fit.!:(
     
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  17. Lance90

    Lance90 Member

    Feb 7, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Random thoughts:

    This US team under Berhalter has always been Possession with NO Purpose.

    This is what you get when you hire a rah rah spiritual advisor instead of a coach.

    We have no one (who starts) who can unlock a defense with a pass or cross at a high level. Our players are always passing/crossing directly to or behind teammates and rarely putting the ball forward into a dangerous space. Our set pieces were consistently horrific.

    We're not going to advance past the round of 16 on athleticism alone. But we've known that for 20 years. Being "brothers" isn't going to help with that either.

    Btw, what's with the fatigue nonsense? I didn't realize that the US had played more minutes that the Dutch or had fewer subs? Adams not tracking back in the 10th min was fatigue?

    Too many of our players are one-dimensional (Pulisic and MMA) with known weaknesses that can be easily counteracted. Pulisic showed why he doesn't start for Chelsea. He's a dribbler and occasional finisher that can easily be bodied off the ball and can't unlock a defense with a pass. Defenders have figured him out. Potter wants guys who can pass.

    Yes, we need a new coach. But one who will stand up to the tendency for the US to ride the same small group of good but flawed players for multiple cycles. I'm sorry, but MMA + Pulisic is not the answer in 2026 anymore than it was in 2022. I'm not saying they all have to go, but that lineup is not the future.
     
  18. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    so cynical and horrible tactic...."smart" but very poor sportsmanship...the ref needs to do more to protect players
     
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  19. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    It's close. If the 2010 team had a fully healthy Jones, Davies, Holden, and Onyewu, I think that would clearly be the peak.

    But the top 7 players of the midfield/winger contingent that we sent to this World Cup are beyond anything that the USA has ever been able to muster. When we were at our best, it seemed like could play in a way that the USA has never done against strong World Cup opponents.
     
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  20. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    He's really the one big decision that I think we can pillory Berhalter for if we really want to pillory Berhalter, but in the end I don't believe that would've made a huge difference. Perhaps Pepi would've had a goal in him against England or Iran, but... Wright DID have the goal today, even if he didn't know much about it. It's unlikely that Pepi would've made that much more of a difference when it mattered most.
     
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  21. theboogeyman

    theboogeyman Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Why does everything have to be about berhalter?

    people have been begging for us to be more aggressive. We came out on the front foot, and almost got a goal, then got split open on a counter. It was a calculated risk that didn’t pay off.

    we got scored on in large part due to A) quality team play by the Dutch B) weaker play by our center backs and C) our midfielders being slow to recover.

    I actually think Berhalter’s in game adjustments were solid. People can criticize him for not playing Reyna as a false 9 earlier, and there’s definitely some legitimacy there, but Reyna was out for basically all of last year, and wasn’t available for our last friendlies before the WC.

    im definitely ready for a fresh approach, but at the end of the day, I think our quality at CF and CB, and our lack of depth were what let us down.

    we played the touch toe to toe. They were better today and deserved the win, but with a few breaks, we definitely could’ve won.

    we’ve stepped up to being a team that can make the knockout stage even if we’re not at our best, and can go against pretty good teams like the Netherlands and England, and not have to bunker and pray to have a chance.

    there are very clear areas for improvement, both in the squad and in the coaching, but the performance today was nothing to be ashamed of. We knew going in that we had a decent chance, but that we needed to catch some breaks to win. We didn’t catch the breaks, and we lost.
     
  22. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It's a bizarre focus when we had 0 set piece goals, screwed up transition like 20 times and missed 3-4 sitters in this game alone.

    No, it's not a super creative midfield, but if you're looking at why we scored 3 goals, it's not in the Top 3 causes.
     
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  23. JUnionFan

    JUnionFan Member+

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Sep 30, 2020
    Or Pulisic needs to do more to get rid of the ball and evade tackles. He has been in the EPL for years, if he hasn't learned that by now then I fear this is all he will ever be.
     
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  24. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he's disappointing.

    USMNT has waited a long time for a global star and it seemed he was the one.

    But he isn't. clearly.

    hes a good player but he isn't even on the Landon/Dempsey level, imo.

    now, is he better than most US players? yeah....

    but the way he dominates the team and is the face of everything MUST come with more scrutiny.

    Why the hell was reyna not taking free kicks corners over Puli??? shows his ego. and it doesnt match his skillz.
     
  25. fishmonger

    fishmonger Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Ante Razov was another one.
     

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