THIS huge missed opportunity, legit looks to be no real favorites. its really an anyone's WC, no better chance to win too. its a blunder because it always means by time we get back into it. Other countries will too get better and have more young players breakthrough to Senior NT. countries like Italy won't be in rebuild mode forever. And they still won the NL group over us too. So on top of winning Euro 2020 they can still pick up another title in NL. Brazil, Spain, France etc have promising players who will become options in future WC too
I posted recently that one of issues is that Sule-Rudiger barely play together and was right. Between Post Euro and Pre-WC -Vs Oman=NEIN -6 NL matches=2/6 ONLY -Dutch+Israel Friendlies=NEIN -7 WCQ=2/7 only WTF, your main CB pair only played together 4 matches out 16 matches=25% of matches.......
Some really good points in this discussion I agree it’s not just talent of defenders it’s about tactics and effort. Consider that Germany just conceded 5 goals in group play versus 1 conceded by the USA. USA starting CB pair - Walker Zimmerman and Tim Ream. Quick without cheating tell me where they play? Nashville SC and Fulham. Let that sink in. Would anyone trade the USA CBs for Germany’s. It’s just pitiful that the USA does basic stuff like play RBs and LBs at you know RB and LB. Then put a DM in front of them (Tyler Adam’s) Bingo! you have a team the maintains better shape. The USA has awful CFs, but by god they play with one. I have no coaching license of any kind (u8 girls highest level coached) I always played with a CF even when they were more interested in picking flowers on the field than scoring. Which begs the question. Why can’t the DFB, Flick and his staff figure this out. It’s unfathomable to me Rant over.
100% In the game vs Spain, they finally didn't leave the full backs isolated the whole time - the wide players worked hard to protect the half space from those break ins
They did show the VAR camera and it showed the ball was in bound the whole time, if just by a fraction (probably the same fraction that one of our goals against Japan was ruled offside (Rudigers, maybe)??
Read one comment by a journalist (or was it a quote in this forum) that after that Low gave up on gegen pressing/high line and went back to the stodgy, old fashioned, German football.
I doubt if that's in his DNA. I am betting he's only get one style, and that's the one that caused us 2 GS exists (same as Lows in 2018)
Aside from the Spain game, it is amazing to see how rattled the German players get when they concede a goal or things are not working as planned. This is down to lack of battle experience. Most German players, except maybe Gundo and Rudiger, are not battle tested. Bayern dominates the BL, rest of BL teams plays for CL sports. Besides Bayern, BL teams are not competitive in Europe. Big part of Bayern's success is due to non-German players (Lewandowski, Ribery, Robben....). Where is the winning mentality and alpha attitude going to come from!
Even without Lewandowski Bayern destroyed Inter & Barca this season, with a midfield/attack which included Kimmich, Goretzka, Muller, Musiala, Sane & Gnabry. Totally overpowered Busquets, Gavi, Pedri, Ferran Torres etc. Most of the German NT players look way better for Bayern, both individually and collectively. They are by no means carried by foreign players.
Both teams this season are shadows of themselves. 2 games is too small of a sample size based on the overall trend I am speaking of. Bayerns dominance of the domestic league, BL teams’ inability to be competitive in Europe have negative impacts on player mentality and confidence.
I think it's important to realize there's a substantial difference between NT football and club football. Club football is "easier" to assert talent in, because that talent has the ability to drill day-in and day-out principles and sophisticated tactics/pressing schemes, so it's easier for all else to be equal and talent to win the day. In NT football, you get maximum one to two weeks of training in before a major tournament and so everything has to be simplified and streamlined; it's easier for smaller NTs to implement a low-block, defence-first style and counter off that, while larger NTs have to train to play a more proactive style designed to break down a low block, which is hard to do in a short length of time. Players like Kimmich are insulated by Bayern's larger defensive infrastructure of pressing and defensive principles to retrieve the ball and stop counters before they really manifest, but are exposed by Germany attempting and not always succeeding in replicating the same style due to differing chemistry and inability to drill complex high-line pressing schemes. Simple is best for national teams, which is why shortcuts like ditching the high line and having more defensive, less proactive attacking tendencies win out. When we talk about team mentality, it's not that the players are "mentally weak" to me. We see that they do fine for their clubs mentally. It's that the players have greater confidence in the larger infrastructure of their club teams and don't have the same confidence in the larger infrastructure of their national team. Flick has to compromise on the vision he has of this high-line pressing team a la Bayern and simplify the principles of the team to be more centered around defensive integrity.
Bayern won the CL with a bunch of German NT players 2 years ago, Frankfurt won the EL last season and the overall head to head when BL teams meet La Liga teams in Europe is heavily stacked in the BL's favour over the last 3 seasons. Even Leverkusen got the better of Atletico this season, and Leipzig beat Real. So comparing us to Spain, which the DFB love to do, there is a pretty solid argument to be had that the BL is actually ahead of La Liga in terms of overall quality right now. They don't have a better league or talent pool, they just get more out of what they've got at international level then we do.
So, why is that? What are the reasons we used to be able to get the best out of our players at thr NT now we don’t? I remember when it was the other way around. Players like Klose, Klinsman, and Voller used to always perform better at the NT even when their club poor was poor.
Kroos is right and some of us called it for ages with whole what's the XI=who knows. Under Flick I legit felt there was NO set XI. According to Kroos, "one of the main tasks in the direction of the next tournament" must be "that at some point we say we have a clear eleven or at least a 13 or 14". The goal must be "that we play as many international matches as possible with this team," said the Real Madrid star, who was "like so many probably disappointed" with the performance of the German team. Even in weaker games, the national coach should then stick to this starting eleven in order to give it support, security and structure. You have to "find a formation, regardless of the name," said Kroos, who did not want to get involved in personnel issues related to Germany's departure. After the 4-2 win against Costa Rica, DFB President Bernd Neuendorf initially left open whether there would be personnel consequences and instead announced an intensive review. "We have to get to the point where we have a clear eleven with clear automatisms, both offensively and defensively, who know how to react to situations during the game - not just the good ones but also the difficult ones. And when we're in this formation If we've played 10-15 games, I'm sure we'll be a little bit more resilient." "It must not happen to us that we are eliminated from the group twice in a row" It was precisely this resilience that the German team lacked, especially in the disappointing 2-1 defeat at the start of the World Cup against Japan. The DFB team had also gotten the Costa Ricans back into the game against Costa Rica through their own mistakes, but still won after being 2-1 down - a victory that ultimately did not change the elimination. "It can't happen to us that we're knocked out in the group twice in a row. We can lose twice in the final against Brazil, but you can't get knocked out twice in these groups. It's obviously not a quality issue in my eyes , but a level of familiarity, resilience and automatism," said Kroos, who played a total of 106 international matches and became world champion with the German team in 2014. You have to "break away from the fact that we do it reasonably well for three or four players so that they are happy," added Kroos, without naming specific names. From his point of view, too much personnel had been rotated in recent years for various reasons - not least in the immediate preparation for the World Cup, when national coach Hansi Flick only used four players from the start in the only test against Oman (1-0), who were in the starting lineup against Japan a few days later. Kroos wants clearer conditions for the future: "No, we need an 11, a 12, a 13 and a 14 - that's our first eleven for the next tournament. Even if that changes slightly due to injuries, we'll give one clear security on the pitch." https://www.sportbuzzer.de/artikel/...-kroos-startelf-costa-rica-kritik-reaktionen/
Some really intresting points . Building a National team and implimenting your style does take time, I think we did agree before the tournament that this winter world cup being played out of schedule did no favours to hansi. Also injuries to key personnel did not help either. Like Matthaus sammer stated it's far easier to gel and integrate to a club set up with day to day training than the national set up which the players get very limited time. I definitely do think come Euros we will be alot stronger but it's imperative he identifies his best pool and sticks with it in the limited time frame we have to the Euros
Shocking performances and group stage elimination in 2018 and a limp exit at the following euros are the prime reason. The shirt is weighing heavily on the same players who like you said perform admirably for their clubs.
What i would say is the the midfield and attack at Bayern have alot of confidence in the likes of Davies, and the French defenders than what we have in the National set up. There's a big difference in quality. Hence sule was regularly benched as he definitely wasn't good enough.
The Flick file Even if his dismissal is not up for debate within the DFB: Hansi Flick is partly responsible for the German World Cup debacle. SPORT1 lists what the national coach has to be accused of. Hansi Flick wants to continue as national coach. He has to get the DFB team back on its feet and modify the squad for the home EM 2024 to ensure more stability. The shaky defense, the midfield that is anything but balanced, the sloppy offensive, plus the trouble about the "One Love" bandage and the years of failure of the DFB leadership around Oliver Bierhoff: there are many reasons for the Qatar debacle of the national team . But one of the faces of the great German crisis is also Hansi Flick! According to SPORT1 information, a dismissal of the national coach is not up for debate internally, the 57-year-old continues to enjoy the trust of the executive committee and is highly regarded by the majority of the players. Solutions in view of the home EM But DFB boss Bernd Neuendorf expects Flick to work through the bitter end in the group phase as quickly as possible and to present possible solutions with a view to the home EM 2024 at an internal meeting on the DFB campus in Frankfurt next week. Bad preparation! The national coach had little time to get his team into tournament mode. Nevertheless, after consultation with his staff, he decided against moving into the World Cup quarters on the north coast of Qatar immediately after the last Bundesliga matchday and adapting to the conditions there as quickly as possible. Instead, we went to Oman for a short training camp. An unfortunate trip, because the players couldn't work intensively or in detail there, had two extra days to travel and, with the exception of goal scorer Niclas Füllkrug, didn't regain their self-confidence during the meager dress rehearsal in Muscat (1-0). This was also due to the fact that Flick did not rely on his “first” eleven in that test, but mixed the team wildly. Warming up for the start against Japan? None! According to SPORT1 information, there were already great doubts in the immediate vicinity of the team about a successful performance at the World Cup. The body language of the players, who marched towards the bus annoyed and in a bad mood after the narrow victory, was also characteristic. There was no sign of a spirit of optimism. Right-back confusion! Germany is not blessed with world-class full-backs. After taking office more than a year ago, Flick had enough time to at least commit to these positions. While he quickly built on David Raum on the left, he kept experimenting on the right – before and, mind you, during the tournament. In the Nations League, it was primarily Thilo Kehrer and Jonas Hofmann who were able to prove themselves there, while Lukas Klostermann also got his chance from time to time. At the start of the World Cup against Japan, Flick surprisingly relied on the trained central defender Niklas Süle. A change that really backfired. Süle was partly to blame for the second and decisive goal against the Japanese by canceling the offside. (DATA: World Cup groups and tables) An example of Flick's desperation: in the remaining two games against Spain and Costa Rica, he switched back and forth again, suddenly bringing in his midfield boss Joshua Kimmich in addition to Kehrer and Klostermann. Such experiments are actually not Flick-like! Too little performance principle! The ex-Bayern coach has to put up with the accusation of not always having made decisions based on the principle of merit when it comes to his staff. It began with the non-nomination of Mats Hummels, Borussia Dortmund's central defender in the best form before the Bundesliga break, and continued in the tournament with the stubborn adherence to the weak Thomas Müller, although Füllkrug reliably snapped. Looking back, it was particularly bitter when Leon Goretzka came on for Ilkay Gündogan in the first game against Japan, as a result of which all control was lost in the midfield, which worked well for a long time. Afterwards, it was rumored in the team environment that Flick only made this change to appease Goretzka, who was pissed off because of his bank position. Flick has a reputation as a buddy. Was he too nice in Qatar? After the bankruptcy in Japan, the wives and families of the DFB stars were allowed to go to the team hotel. This came as a surprise to many outsiders. There weren't many restrictions in the luxurious Zulal Wellness Resort anyway. The suspicion is that Flick rarely took action, apart from a few clear speeches! Like the executives around Bierhoff, he also allowed around the Binden Theater that seven leading players held a special meeting the evening before the duel with Japan to think about another gesture (SPORT1 reported exclusively). Tensions arose among the players. Some wanted to set an example, others didn't. It is also significant that Flick did not voluntarily take a player to the press conference before the fateful game against Spain. His reasoning: he didn't want to expect anyone to travel the 100 kilometers from the five-star palace in Al Ruwais to the FIFA media center in Doha. The DFB accepted a fine of CHF 10,000 for this. Typical Flick, he puts himself in front of his players. Too much? Even at the moment of the greatest failure, he thought of his protégés: In the 90th minute he brought on defender Matthias Ginter so that he was spared a personal negative record. The national coach did not see a mentality problem in the team, although Antonio Rüdiger, even his defense chief, emphasized: “We lack this last greed, this something dirty! I think we are a very, very nice team!” Lack of self-criticism! After the disgrace of Qatar, Flick largely shied away from responsibility. Regarding the much-discussed Goretzka-for-Gündogan change in the first game, he said that one could expect that complete control in midfield would not be lost as a result. His coaching team "did a successful job". And anyway: Germany has to get back to its “basics” and has an urgent need to catch up, especially in terms of training. That is certainly true, but it should have been a little more self-criticism. One thing is clear: Flick is not solely to blame. After this embarrassing end, he still lost credit. In a year and a half the home EM starts. Solutions are urgently needed. https://www.sport1.de/news/fussball...rm&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharing_app
There is a prediction contest for the knockout stage. Whoever is interested feel free to join and predict the Round of 16 fixtures by naming the eight winners with (N) => in normal time (E) => in extra time (P) => on penalties Post# 3218 https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/m...redictions-what-do-you-think.2120305/page-129
Kinexon actually admitted that if they had used photo inspection only as they did in WC 2018 they would have ruled that the ball was out. None of the photos show the ball out of bound( I am aware of the perspective issue) but from the physics calculation the ball was clearly out at one point. The imaging from sensor signals is an experimental technology that Kinexon is pushing. They already have contracts with NBA etc. but I don't trust it that much. I think they are taking advantage of jocks who are impressed by anything resembling high tech. I talked in more details about this in Korea forum. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/2022-fifa-world-cup-qatar-thread.2122565/page-18#post-41009807
So Watzke is involved and will be more involved with the DFB that just shows that more and more incompetence is installed at the DFB.
My point has always been at. World Cup you don’t always need World stars … I mean a player from Bochum scored against us . Why can’t we play a Fulkrug other teams do and they are always quite successful at a tourney .