Post-match: 2022 World Cup, USA-Iran

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Dr. Gamera, Nov 29, 2022.

  1. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the point is to put the right players on the field and advance. Luckily he didn’t put in De La Torre or Reyna as a defensive midfielder…or Pepi with his 5 goals in a year…and 0 in the Bundesliga.

    But bringing up Pepi when he’s not here shows you are not actually here for any discussion.

    I hope Berhalter gets renewed through 2006 just because it’s hilarious to see people commit mental suicide online out of some completely ignorant rage against Berhalter. And we would do fine because he doesn’t game plan based on putting players in places to fail.
     
  2. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In fairness, if you run the entire play in slo-mo, you see it is as much a really good play by Bale as a bad play by Zim. Zimmerman didn't see him until just about this point and Bale did a great job to insert himself between Zimm and the ball. On another point, the 15 seconds preceding this instant was some crap defending and shape out on the flank that eventually led to this instant. Still, Zimmerman needs to have better awareness of what is around him.
     
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  3. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I'm fine with that concept but with modern technology, I still believe that we need to draw the line so that humans can theoretically make the same call that the computers can. Use the computers to verify but don't use hands, knees or other parts of the body that are intermittently even or off.

    If you want to use a gap as the defining criteria for offsides that is fine with me but make it a gap between the head and torso. If you see air between bodies (not counting arms and or legs), than that is offsides. I'm fine either way but I don't think it is right to have a law that no human can realistically be expected to determine.
     
  4. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's your argument? One play over the course of 36 caps, or even 3 in this tourney? CCV had a few in one game. That reinforces how comparatively shaky he was/is defensively.

    And how much are we talking about CCV sending us home if Zimmerman doesn't cover for him at the end after he got beat for the would be game-losing goal? The only reason why he didn't have 1 or more of these goal-conceding events in this match are his teammates like Walker bailing him out. Ironically that's used against Walker and for CCV. Go figure.
     
  5. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Everyone's on board with that. EVERYONE :)
     
  6. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    a remake of groundhog day?
     
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  7. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Well yes, 2006 we did need a different coach, right. If we play it enough times we'll figure it out. And....Don't drive angry!!
     
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  8. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would be the same as now, only the human and computer would be determining if nothing's off, instead of anything. And if it's a question, you just let it go initially like now.
     
  9. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Before the World Cup, I would have been happy to swap Iran and Wales for Serbia and Cameroon, or Ghana and South Korea. I cannot say that about the first two groups you said because they have a Concacaf team.

    Sports Illustrated's preview disagrees. Their odds to advance were England -333, Wales +550, USA +600, and Iran +1,100. Sports Illustrated predicted our group correctly.
     
  10. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Im not for that but if it will annoy people that complain that Berhalter isn’t subbing in players that are not on the roster…in match analysis threads. Yeah I’m all in.
     
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  11. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Check your dates, my man.
     
  12. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Wait a minute. Wales advanced over us. Fuuuuuuuuck!
     
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  13. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Signed,

    The guy who characterized Pepi as having "5 goals in a year", when it's been 6 (and 2 assists) in 2 months on a terrible team. That's the form he's in.

    But you're here to have a discussion. The fact Pepi wasn't even brought in favor of Wright who had 0 goals+assists in the same league, and had been inferior for the nat'l teams, just to putz around, makes it worse.

    I read casuals and neutrals from other countries alike who were first introduced to him against Iran dragging him over the coals. Pepi would never.
     
  14. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
  15. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just rewatching it now. 2 minutes into 2T, Strong & Holden are discussing the importance of a 2nd goal... Strong says "what you don't wanna do is find yourself defending for your lives in the final minute". :ROFLMAO:
     
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  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #1116 gogorath, Dec 1, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2022
    Lack of systematic evaluation criteria just means you "evaluate" based on whatever you feel. Which was my point.

    All our coaches have been terrible, according to you, because you thought that ahead of time, not out of any evaluation.

    If you can't come up with criteria, I don't know why anyone would take you seriously on this point.

    Of course there are. The chance that we have the best coach for the US in the world is very low in a world with hundreds and thousands of coaches.

    But you can't weigh it against that. You have to weigh it against the coach that you will hire. You get one shot, period.

    As an example, everyone was calling for Tata when Berhalter was hired. That would have been a disaster. There's a risk element here I don't think people appreciate, especially in terms of culture.

    Coaches have a motivational ticking clock. No one knows how long each are, but few can keep players engaged and working hard -- the single most important thing for a coach -- for a super long time.

    One, it hasn't been four years. There's that pesky COVID in there, shortened windows, etc.

    But aside from that, we do have an offensive plan. This is where we are going to differ. I don't think this team is as strong in execution or current ability as you do.

    My biggest offensive concerns revolve more around set pieces, tactically, and how we expect to help our players improve. There are some tactical issues I don't agree with / would like to see adjusted. But at the core of our scoring issues isn't a tactical one, IMO. Contributing, maybe, but not the cause. I don't think our plan is holding back a slew of offensive brilliance at this level. And the part of it that is -- a strong tactical defensive plan -- I'm not against.

    Of course not. But I'm not asking for a two sentence answer. I'm asking for a plan in a lot of cases. As in, bring in a binder.

    Oh, horsecrap. The dude protects players in press conferences, but he seems to me pretty darn introspective and honest. I actually think if you pushed him on things like "what does he really want to do" the dude would take two weeks to think on it.

    I also think that he works hard to improve. He's not above criticism, not above changing his mind. I think he's a lot more flexible than a lot of coaches.

    Every choice must be a calculated risk. Earnie should be evaluating options. But I think the job requirements and the dealbreakers for me are fairly significant. I don't think this team flourishes under a yelling disciplinarian. I don't think they do well with a mind games coach.

    I don't actually agree with a massive tactical shift, either. If there's a better national team tactician out there, great, and I'm not talking formation here. But I don't want to see someone come in with an incredibly different general philosophy at the higher levels; I think that's counter to how we're building and counter-productive.

    You guys think this team is wildly talented and the only thing holding them back is Berhalter. I think that's incredibly naive. I think there's a HUGE group of coaches who would be far worse. And I think the most important points of improvement are in the individual improvement the players will make and the depth we'll build.

    I would absolutely evaluate the market. And frankly, I think there's a good chance Berhalter wants to move on.

    But I think people are crazy to think the next hire is a slam dunk to be better.
     
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  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm betting he's going to swerve first.
     
  18. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A discussion about how Wright did or who could have done better in the situation is great. Wright absolutely didn’t play well…Sergeant had been making plays that helped advance possession and the drop off after the injury hurt the US.

    I don’t see anybody else on the roster performing that as well. We have a very fast striker on the bench that may have been useful on the counter…

    We had Reyna or Morris…

    I’ve seen Reyna is the best option for almost every substation we’ve made posted here, but he makes no sense up front when we have no possession or playing deep in midfield, but as the English press said after their game against the US “fans always think the guy who didn’t play is the best”…
     
  19. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is this serious? I stated the goals he had from Germany and Holland together at time of the roster announcement on November 9th and you want to add that he scored that all important 1 more goal on Nov 13th after he was left off which couldn’t have been known by anybody when the roster is decided because we don’t have time travel?

    But if that’s what was important in the Iran game to you…
     
  20. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    This 100 times. I think the issue that quite a few posters have with Beerholder is that he has done some really odd things in games of lesser importance so they then jump to he’s terrible, when it seems the team is prepared for matches at the World Cup and the biggest roster and line up decisions are paying off.

    I actually think he’s done a better job overall than most of the US coaches in the modern era. He also has the most talented group we’ve had.
    He has gotten many big calls correct in this tournament. I’m giving CCV and Sarge moves as good changes from England to Iran…he also really doesn’t have competition in most spots (MMA, Dest, Robinson)…maybe you have Aaronson, CCV, and Reyna that can step in without a huge drop off but that’s about it.

    That’s a big problem when center backs don’t often need to be subbed and Musah and McKennie don’t have 90 minute fitness
     
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  21. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A lot of the anger about Gregg being in the job was the obvious old boy network working to move him into place,allied with the mantra of "the boys need an American coach".
    Id love to see Herve Renard coach these kids.Id like our coach to be advised by Guus Hiddink
    I know it's not going to happen,not for now at least.
    So I cheer who we have.
     
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  22. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    US coaches have all not really worked out when given a second cycle, but you do see it with some foreign teams and it’s worked out for some of them.
     
  23. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reyna would make sense if you still had Weah in the game to provide speed and switched to 2 up top for a period.

    Then Morris could have been brought in later to fill that role once Weah was gassed. There would have been hand-wringing for that, but you can't satisfy the yahoos in that case. In other ones the critique for the substitution choice has been reasonable. It's been a weakness in this tourney.
     
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  24. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, he did have a 6th goal in the Cup before that time (and 2 total assists, we could use those too, they've been hard to come by for our other strikers). Fair if you want to exclude the extra league goal.

    But are you serious you want to ding the guy for how he was playing 10 months ago as opposed to now? 7-8 g+a is a significant sample to display he's turned things around confidence-wise. After Sargent's big drought, he had 10 g+a this season before the announcement. So the argument there is he started his 2nd-rate league season 2 months earlier, and in that time he's netted a whopping 2-3 more league g+a? While he had a much worse record for the nat'l team, the one he's auditioning for? And he can even be a starter while Pepi's off the roster completely?

    Leaving Pepi off, given the alternatives, was an indefensible decision. Face it. And of course it's important because he's a pool player. He's not an option because pure discretion.
     

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