Two forwards is sometimes better than one

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Nov 22, 2022.

  1. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In theory, we could still use a 4411, more or less, to the same effect.

    ————-—JS/HW/JF/TW——————
    —————Aaronson (or Gio/JF)———
    —-Pulisic————————McKennie—
    ———Musah—————Adams————
    Jedi——————————————-Dest
    ———Ream—————-Zimmerman——
    ————————Turner———————-

    Essentially, Bob’s empty bucket formation with two DM’s (Musah and Adams), two AM’s (Pulisic and McKennie), and two forwards.

    Now, Bob played one target and one speedie for forward so it’s not exactly Bob’s strategy.

    I’ve got one target forward who needs to get mean. I want him fighting for everything. Don’t get a red card. But I want the most aggressive man for the job tomorrow. Every time their center backs touch the ball, he better be ready to make contact with one of them. In other words, force turnovers.

    If Aaronson plays, we sort of get another forward for that job. Someone who will harass the crap out of their backline. Relentless. That’s what I want tomorrow. But Aaronson has enough skill to also offer us something to go up the gut when their center backs try to close up shop and make us go for hopefully crosses to get a goal.

    Pulisic and McKennie, alternating, one goes out wide for the cross option, the other one crashes the box. Both seem to thrive in that arrive late in the box. Even tiny Pulisic likes to get in on some headers and volleys.

    Use McKennie and Adams to control the middle and breakup counters. Fullbacks in for support. Ream and Zimmermann making sure they don’t get good shots on goals.

    Main thing I would tell this team is to be direct but disciplined. We don’t have to score in the first half. We just have to play the game where we are the frustrator not the frustratee.

    Expect Iran to foul hard. Expect Iran to counter very quickly. Do not expect Iran to have nothing go forward. Think of that they’re just waiting and when they attack, they attack with numbers. Exploit the space when they attack. And hit them in these transition moments.

    Cut off Mehdi Taremi from the game!
     
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  2. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    So if two forwards are better than one what can we say about no forwards? In particular against a team that parks the bus.
     
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  3. Betamax

    Betamax Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Houston, Tx
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #28 Betamax, Nov 28, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
    If we stay in the 4-3-3 I would expect it to be for Weah. In a 4-4-2, possibly in the nine spot.

    edit - not that plays as a nine, he would just replace that position.
     
  4. Betamax

    Betamax Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Houston, Tx
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like this, though I like us better with a single d-mid instead of a double pivot.
     
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  5. Betamax

    Betamax Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Houston, Tx
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wish we head a McBride for this match, but given our current roster there is something to this.
     
  6. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Nice thing about 442 to me is we solve our 9 problems since we can play Pulisic and Weah as a pair up top and still get another of our midfielders on. I'd be happy to see something like:

    ...............Pulisic..Weah
    .........Reyna.............McKennie
    ...............Musah..Adams
    Robinson..Ream..Zimmerman..Dest
    ...................Turner

    Keeps Musah and Adams in deep midfield keeping things tidy, keeps McKennie involved and puts him on the right where he can attack more. Gets Reyna on the field. Aaronson could take the place of a few people if he must be on the field or first attacking sub off the bench. The forwards can go wide if needed but we'd still get width from the fullbacks as we often do anyway. No more crosses to no one, keeps speed up top to bother the defense and stretch the game. No target but when have we actually used a target anyway? None of our 9s are good at it and we seldom play to them anyway. Makes it simple to defend similarly to how we did against England.
     
  7. Betamax

    Betamax Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Houston, Tx
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yep, a lot of us have been wanting this for a while. It makes all the sense.
     
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  8. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If that’s my XI, I would switch Reyna and Pulisic. Believe it or not, I trust Pulisic’s work rate to track back on defense more than I trust Reyna’s who still has his immature moments. But I think that tweak could make that line up tick.
     
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  9. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Should add that I don't think they should make such a dramatic change for Iran. We spent four years preparing to play a certain way and I don't think it makes a ton of sense to change it suddenly for a big game. I just think this is the sort of option that should have been worked on over the past several years.
     
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  10. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Iran is weaker in the air than Wales and England. I think we'll direct more. Especially would like to see Ream play some long diagonal balls to McKennie and Weah.
     
  11. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We played two up top vs England. What game were you watching?
     
  12. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jesus Christ, dude. Look at when the thread was created.
     
  13. olephill2

    olephill2 Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The original post in this thread was right after the Wales match; before we played England.
     
  14. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We played with a 4-3-3 for the whole cycle. I think for this game we should go back to it and go back to our high press trom the get-go. And hopefully we don't get burn on the counter.
     
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  15. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think yesterday showed the advantages of the 2 forward system. In my opinion, that was Josh Sargent’s best game in a USMNT shirt (in how long?), and Tim Weah actually looked very threatening in that vertical forward role.
     
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  16. Betamax

    Betamax Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Houston, Tx
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, what they were running -- at least in the first half -- looked similar to what they ran against England: a hybrid 4-3-3 4-4-2 depending on where Pulisic was playing, but with more fluidity. I'd like to re-watch and see.
     
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  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Good point. Weah plays forward and so was often more even with Sargent in his hold up role. We didn't see a lot of Sargent-Weah interplay, though. Pulisic played the second striker in the hold up play really -- he'd often play underneath and often collect Sargent's pass back (along with a number of central mids).

    It's also worth noting that Robinson played his usual very forward role and Wes slipped in behind him wide -- our attack was almost more a 343 but like this:

    AR --- JS --- TW
    WK -- CP -- YM -- SD
    ----TR--TA--CCV (although TA came up a lot so)

    That said, I think Pulisic played more forward against Iran than he did against Wales or even England. And when Aaronson came in, he plays a lot more like Weah.
     
  18. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Moving forward, please, let’s be sure to incorporate a good two forward option in our repertoire. We can keep the 433 too, but we need some flexibility.
     

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