Post-match: 2022 World Cup, USA-Iran

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Dr. Gamera, Nov 29, 2022.

  1. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    I was kinda-sorta joking about a US win resulting in the people getting hurt in Iran, but according to one journalist it did happen.



    Mehran Samak was shot in the head IN HIS CAR while celebrating in Iran. He was 27. It's bad enough when the violence is fan-on-fan, but government-on-fan is surreal. I hope his loved ones can find peace. And I hope the families of the players are unaffected, because despite the loss to England, I think Iran acquitted themselves very well at this World Cup... but anything short of winning the World Cup was never going to be enough for the Iranian Regime.
     
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  2. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    So this is the kind of certainty that I don’t get. Most people here don’t have “zero understanding” no matter where they fall on these debates and Berhalter has been pretty good in setting us up. Is anyone saying he got the tactics wrong against England? I actually was surprised - he outperformed my expectations.
     
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  3. papermache16

    papermache16 Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes there are problems, mostly with who he is subbing in, but I am refusing to let that completely detract from the fact that we have been the better team in all three games.

    Let's take away "scoreboard baby!" For a minute like you said. Who was the better team against Wales? Against England? Against Iran? Just as a coach might be responsible for any bad stretches in play, who should also get some credit for when the team plays well, which it has for the majority of the group stage?
     
  4. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gregg had a good starting gameplan in all 3 games and tactic wise was way more flexible, which is awesome.

    In all 3 games the substitutes were awful. He did try Moore over Yedlin in game 2, but Moore was actually worse, but yet saw the field and predictably passed the ball right to Iran. Acosta is a DM only, maybe some appeal as a RB when absolutely have to. Yet he sees the field in a role that has him play to his weakness of ball control and possession.

    No idea why he decides to "show grit" when bunkering against a team when you don't have to. That said, he picked up 5 points and gets a shot at the Dutch. Well enough.

    The mistakes definitely add to the please don't extend his contract side of the equation though. Seeing the same thing happen 2 years after taking the job means he isn't adapting as fast as you have to. Gotta be better.
     
  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    538 gave us a 38% chance to win per their data. Then I factored in Iran's added motivation + the presumption they'd play a low block.

    Turns out their aggression may have caused the faux pas of utilizing a mid block instead. If I'd have known that I'd have picked the US to win. I'm pretty confident in this team's ability to beat a mid block, or high press when we have fresh legs.

    With the info I had beforehand, I thought we'd draw 1-1. It was pretty close to happening in the end. 1 goal/event can be almost nothing, while simultaneously almost everything in this sport. Outside of between teams with major advantages over one another, it's meant to determine outcomes over larger samples of matches.
     
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  6. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    It's what dictatorships do. The Iranian regime has been murdering young protestors with abandon for months now, when they're not shipping drones off to Russia to bomb maternity wards in Ukraine.

    My heart goes out to all the victims of these people.

    {Mods: I understand if this over the line, but needed to get that off my chest. It's been a hard year watching all this}
     
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  7. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i cant believe we are encyclopedia browning this shit, but yes- its mirrored. look at the crest on his shirt underneath the text.

    why would anything think this is photoshopped?
     
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  8. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Late to the thread due to other things (weird that all that other stuff didn't just go away after the US won! What a buzzkill!), but it's cathartic to share my quick thoughts after watching the replay last night even though I bet a lot of this is now well-treaded ground.


    I though the team looked the best they had in a long time in the first half. Some nervy moments early, but overall the guys executed vey well, getting the ball into the box and also keeping a lid on Iran. It looks like they need to make more second runs off the ball, but maybe that risks losing the ability to counterpress or hold shape "too much." And they were creating a least a few half chances anyway.

    I think all three of MMA played very well. I don't know the stats, but they seemed to cover a lot of ground in that half laterally, preemptively covering for the high FBs.

    But really everyone was playing well, the goal was nicely done, and I really thought Weah had got that second goal.

    The second half felt awful live, and watching live I couldn't understand why Gregg wasn't trying something different to staunch the bleeding. On replay it seemed more like a slow deterioration than the stark change it felt like live.

    For the first about 20, the US still looked like the better team, but Iran was confronting higher and trying to get behind the FBs even more, so it was never going to look just like the first half. Aaronson showed what someone that can weight a through ball can do and Iran got some more of the ball, but still wasn't making big inroads.

    Then Wes went out. I looked to me like he was holding his groin a little, but maybe not. Regardless, I think this coincided with Musah starting to fade and the game shifted. I did not think Wright provided the boost of fresh legs he should have, and he was worse than Sargent, but the midfield had already turned. It may be that when Acosta plays the 8, the plan to try and possesses in the midfield is discarded (or at least reined in a lot). And Musah was clearly starting to labor during this time (as was Weah).

    The last 15 minutes were awful to watch, but they gutted it out. Couple of notes:

    I think CCV is a good player and I like him, but he was lucky the referee was as good as he was. The guy's style and body type would be a magnet for whistles to another, lesser ref. I hope that doesn't bite the US.

    it's surprising Shaq Moore is preferred over Scally to me, but he wasn't quite as awful as I first thought. Not good, but maybe some back luck in there.

    (TLDR -- here is probably the only new observation following all the very positive stuff above:)

    Last item -- several times the US players looked more like they were at a youth camp tryout than at the WC. About 4 or 5 times I recall thinking, the moment clearly called for a simple, smart play, but they "tried something." I think "trying something" is great most of the time, but there are phases and moments in the game where it's just not the right choice if the only goal is to win that game (and not project long-term individual value). Not a huge deal, and I put it down to youth mostly, but I'm hoping they all continue to mature along those lines.

    Congrats to the team and to Gregg and the staff. Great result in a difficult situation.
     
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  9. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yes, I think upon reflection this is thre right take. The U.S. was the better team for most of all three matches. It's hard to be the best team for every minute of all three matches.

    Put me in the convinced column.
     
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  10. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    It's mirrored because its a selfie taken with the camera. The only thing I thought might've been 'shopped was the message... but everything else is too detailed to be faked in such a short amount of time...
     
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  11. WrmBrnr

    WrmBrnr Member+

    Apr 12, 2001
    San Carlos
    The last 10 minutes plus stoppage I'll give you- not planned and more down to injuries and subs not panning out.

    Was I happy? No. Did a tired Wes or Dest get a yellow and are ruled out of the round of 16? No.

    If Gregg uses Haji Wright again in that situation I will definitely question his tactical acumen more often than I do.

    But to characterize the entire second half as hoofball is ridiculous.
     
  12. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    I think giving him at least a half would be a good way to get him into the squad in a way that brings him up,to,speed..
     
  13. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    You and I have a different idea and evaluation of what our players are and aren't.
     
  14. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    My primary criticism of Berhalter occurred 6-8 months ago when he decided that LDLT was going to be his only backup possession based 8, along with Aaronson who would play both forward and midfield.

    With the roster as is, I wouldn't have used LDLT in that situation, and sure I would have brought on Scally, but he's not nearly as good in possession as for whatever reason a lot of people think he is, and he's at best an average defender at this stage in his career, and not particularly athletic - basically I'd have asked him to play the exact role that Moore did. Defend and clear

    I would have found a way to use Reyna, but again - Reyna isn't enough. Nor is Reyna + Scally. And I wouldn't have trusted LDLT at that point.
     
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  15. Mike03

    Mike03 Member

    Jun 7, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Red Dwarf rep!
     
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  16. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Deuce knows

     
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  17. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Said this after England, he shouldn't be here. Dunno what Berhalter is seeing.
     
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  18. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Could you imagine if track and field used arms and legs to determine the winner in photofinshes? We'd have an increased number of sprinters with exceedingly long arms. Perhaps a new type of steroid would be developed that increases the length of fingers!

    ;)
     
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  19. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For me the biggest issue has been our fitness as other than Adams it seems like most the team hasn't been able to maintain the intensity that we are starting games with. And it makes sense with McKennie and Dest given they both came into the World Cup coming off injuries.
     
  20. Cavan9

    Cavan9 Member

    Nov 16, 2011
    Silver Spring, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you want to see how hard it is to get a win when the other team knows they only need a draw to advance, look at the Denmark-Australia game. On paper, Denmark is the better team, however, Australia knew they only had to sit back and counter to advance while Denmark had to win. Game ended 1-0 Australia. Denmark got bunkered and countered.

    Now, change that to an opponent whose entire team is built around a low block and counter and that should put yesterday's win in perspective.
     
  21. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like LDLT, but feels like the priority for next year for the Nations League and the Gold Cup we need to spend some time trying to figure out backup 8 options for Musah and McKennie. Whether it's Pomykal, Williamson, Cardoso, Booth, or someone else, that seems like the top priority. The MMA midfield has been great, but the dropoff when they come off the field is huge.

    And I guess tryout Aidan Morris at the 6, but still not alot of options there beyond Adams and Acosta.
     
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  22. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I disagree w/you, but you make good arguments. I think some of the subs were fine, especially Zim on to provide better aerial support and defending wall, but I would've brought on Scally and Reyna to add possession, and defending as well in the former case. We put those two on, we can actually hold the ball a little bit. Most of the people like me that are upset about the subs, are upset about very specific parts, in my view: Ferreira, Reyna, Scally, Zim, Aaronson. I think there's an argument that Reyna being off and Acosta being on makes some sense in terms of steel, and I get that, I just think possession is more valuable to me to hold the ball and ease up the pressure on the defense.

    This approach almost certainly shouldn't have worked, they had a free header, they had a weak penalty claim and a loose ball running right in front of the goal. This was helter skelter, messy, horror show which would've been punished against a stronger side, it won't work as a plan very often. I'd like some more thoughtfulness about what we're doing, and it does need to be said, some of these guys, back of the roster, have really proven they shouldn't have made the roster, especially over some other guys, and worse, we have guys that Berhalter clearly doesnt feel good about putting on the field due to fitness or something (LDLT, Reyna, Scally) and if that's so, he simply should have brought different options, like a Pepi, like a Tillman etc.
     
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  23. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    I knew this team had it in them to compete, but I didn't expect them to show so much emotion... it's REALLY REALLY hard to dislike anyone on this team.



    credit where credit is due... we can talk about Gregg's tactical abilities all we want, but no one can deny that he's been a good locker-room coach. This is a squad that like and support each other, and that is awesome and inspiring to see.
     
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  24. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't disagree but MMA is playing world class level right now. Pretty tough not to have a big drop off when you sub one of them off.
     
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  25. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hard to photoshop the pulse ox on his finger as well as the hospital wrist ID. That smile suggests to me he will be in the lineup on Saturday. Unless he's got some painkiller on board, he doesnt look very hurt at this point.
     
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