The Philadelphia Union Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by ussoccer97531, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--

     
  2. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
  3. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    JUnionFan repped this.
  4. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've said this before - but I realized that Leon Flach is 1) a flawed player and 2) a player I still like.

    Curtin has used him well and he is important to the team's success. I think he'll move back to Germany after this year. He is not going to be a good fit for everyone and he has to be careful in his choice of clubs. He could ride the bench if he makes a poor choice (or he goes to a club where the manager is on the hot seat).

    If the U.S. U-23 team hires a coach that is similar to Mikey Varas, Flach is the starting No. 6.
     
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  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does this mean he goes to the Bundesliga or the 2. BL? He barely played in the 2. BL, albeit when he was fairly young. But that could be a perceptional stain & force him to work his way up the ladder. Maybe a serious promotional contender in the 2 BL.
     
  6. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a good question and maybe I should add he goes to Europe somewhere, not just Germany. He's better off staying in Philadelphia than going to a large chunk of the 2.BL.
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    If he's heading home to head home, I understand it. But is there a league out there that pays as well / is as good as MLS that is also going to be as forgiving of his passing ability? That's the debate.

    If he was American and passed like that, I don't think there would be much of a discussion.
     
  8. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hamburg or bust. But like you said, situation is very important. I don't know if they can hide his offensive inabilities at a top club w/in a league, although Philly manages to do it.

    If he stays at Philly, he may get a few boosts to his value still. He can work his way into the periphery of the senior nat'l team in January camps. He's Olympic eligible. And Philly would be a contender to make the Club World Cup. So it should be a good situation for him to move. He shouldn't rush it.

    But I get the sense he's very much a believer in his abilities, beyond reality, ala LDLT. Highlights his own strengths & ignores the weaknesses. IIRC, he thought Gregg should call him up very early on in his Philly tenure, ala Ochoa thru 8 games at RSL.
     
  9. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been a critic of him on the ball, but hadn't watched him this season, and didn't even realize if anything he's regressed thru Philly's success. He's literally bottom 1% at his position in a # of categories.

    Compare this to Aidan Morris, who gets Flach for his passing, but he's top 1/3 to 1/4 in the league in a # of categories. He's not bottom half in anything other than final 3rd contribution. And that's not a prerequisite for a D-mid.

    And in the ball-winning stats, Morris is elite, and Flach is just very good.

    I think Morris is simply a better USNT & European prospect than Flach.
     
  10. no exit

    no exit Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Nov 20, 2019
    I personally don't take defensive stats that seriously anymore (at least without more context/analysis) after watching Virgil van Dijk revolutionize the Liverpool defense with like 1st percentile in tackle stats.
     
  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Eye test is superior to some of these stats.

    I don't think the metrics quoted accurately reflect his quality and what he does well. Philly doesn't need him to be Paxton Pomykal. They have others for that.
     
  12. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's always been criticized for his lack of on ball prowess by people like me, based on watching him (before this year, but it's clearly still a problem, when his stats are so clearly inferior). He's got poor vision & his technique is mediocre. He's not that talented. He can belong or even be an asset on some teams from effort, defensive reads, off ball offense, and technical adequacy at least.

    And the defensive stats are kind to him. They're just not as kind as Aidan Morris, who has always been a terrier. So I don't know what this refutes. He's just not best of the best as a defender (like he may have to be, and it's still not going to be good enough on many teams). He can take some overly aggressive angles to get caught out of position & make rash challenges.

    Metrics are a check of bias/people pushing agendas like they are p.r. agents for USS or whatever it may be. To wit metrics are more reliable. Eye test has more potential for validity. But in most cases, that potential is not realized, because of the aforementioned reasons. The vast majority of clubs use them as a tool now, and if they don't they're going the way of the dodo.
     
  13. JUnionFan

    JUnionFan Member+

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Sep 30, 2020
    News that probably impacts home grown minutes in the playoffs:



    This is pretty much why I have always been a "we need more rotation" guy. At 35 and playing 90 minutes every game, more coulda been done to avoid this. I understand injuries are never deterministic, but you shoulda been smarter.

    This is why it was a joke to leave Bedoya in for so long in those blowouts. Save his muscles, and also give players like McGlynn, Sullivan, Aaronson more minutes.

    If you would have done that, maybe Bedoya would be fine. Or even if not, then you have the HGs with more experience so that maybe they would be more prepared to step in for the play offs.
     
  14. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All of the home growns played in the playoffs last season. They have experience.

    For all we know Bedoya could have aggravated his hip flexor playing with his kids. He looked fine in his brief cameo against Toronto. They don't play for another week.
     
  15. no exit

    no exit Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Nov 20, 2019
    Right, I totally agree with much of what you're saying. But I think defense has fundamentally different properties than (much of) offense. Some of it is stopping passes from being made -- if you're positioning yourself well so the pass doesn't go to the dangerous #10 and instead goes to DeAndre Yedlin on the flank, that's a good play that doesn't (yet) get counted everywhere.

    Some defensive plays aren't, properly, individual plays. A successful offside line is a feat of choreography, not genius. And so on.

    There are some similar critiques about offensive statistics, but they strike me as a less-big deal. Stats are, I think, reasonably good about figuring out who's increasing the chances of a goal being scored if they're on the ball. What I think they're less good at is discovering the value of a guy like Pedro to peak Guardiola Barca. But if your stats are good at describing "why Messi is awesome" and less good at "why Pedro is a helpful player," they've got a solid sense of the world.

    Because of that, I'm inclined to think there's something going on with Flach that the stats aren't able to pick up on yet. It's a bit of a tautology, redolent of some crusty columnist declaring so-and-so is a winner and then knocking off for cheap beer at 2:30, but Flach keeps on playing for a really strong team. There might well be something going on we don't readily understand.
     
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  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
  17. derek750

    derek750 Member+

    Apr 16, 2007
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did I say he was offensively challenged?

    I meant to say he is an offensive hero.
     
  19. JUnionFan

    JUnionFan Member+

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Sep 30, 2020
    He's not putting up highlight reel plays as much, but McGlynn going like 85 in a super tight playoff game says a lot more about his ability and where he is than anything else can. Especially for a coach like Curtin.

    (you can say the same thing in the negative sense about Aaronson and Sullivan not seeing any minutes too)

    McGlynn was quiet in the first half but combined better in the second half and was part of the team play that lead to the goal.
     
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  20. no exit

    no exit Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Nov 20, 2019
    Thought some of McGlynn's defensive limitations showed this match, but they weren't so bad he was unplayable. On the ball, he did get a bunch of passes into the final third and got a couple shots off, so overall a creditable performance in a pressure situation.
     
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  21. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
  22. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
     
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  24. Sup Bro

    Sup Bro Member+

    Oct 26, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    McGlynn was slow to rotate over in the NYCFC goal, but you can also see his quality on the highlight above. He needs time and space to operate, which is harder to find the further up the ladder you climb.

    Interesting off-season ahead for the Union. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Bedoya’s injury/late season fatigue makes it clear that more minutes should be available for the youngins. I suspect a MLS Cup would make it easier for Curtain to move on from his locked in 11.
     
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  25. Kombucha

    Kombucha Member+

    Jul 1, 2016
    Club:
    --other--
    It is possible that Union sell one of their attacking core (Uhre, Gazdag, Carranza) but they are all under contract for 2023 and you haven't heard any real speculation around it. I would assume that the front office and Curtin would want to keep the band together. Burke also has a club option for 2023.

    Wagner getting sold seems like it has high odds and now some rumors with Flach.

    McGlynn got over a 1,000 minutes and is is already embedded as a core player. Hard to not see him topping that mark next year.

    Seems pretty murky for Aaronson and Sullivan. Burke got over a 1,000 minutes so if they don't bring him back that would open up a slot as the back-up striker in a two striker formation. This seems like the most logical move to clear time.

    I doubt Curtin is going to change is philosophy a ton in regards to subs, so team is going to have to free up spots in the rotation to make room for the younger players, but the core plays at such a high level and are under contract for 2023.
     
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