WC22 Pre-tournament Referee discussion

As we inch closer to the opening of the tournament, will try to move more WC22 Referee content into this sub-form and away from the main forum. I just moved this discussion thread here, but locked it: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/selected-world-cup-2022-referees.2120949/ For those looking at some general initial thoughts and other discussions, it might be a helpful read.

We can use this thread to discuss any domestic or continental performances by the selected officials from today through the start of the tournament. If you'd like to have more specific or other discussions, please start a new thread. For resource purposes, here is a PDF of all selected officials:

https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/1da4b...er-List-of-Match-Officials-FWC-2022-Qatar.pdf

And here is a more immediately accessible list of selected referees by confederation:

AFC
AL-JASSIM (QAT)
BEATH (AUS)
FAGHANI (IRN)
MA (CHN)
MOHAMMED (UAE)
YAMASHITA (JPN)

CAF
GASSAMA (GAM)
GHORBAL (ALG)
GOMES (RSA)
MUKANSANGA (RWA)
NDIAYE (SEN)
SIKAZWE (ZAM)

CONCACAF
BARTON (SLV)
ELFATH (USA)
MARTINEZ (HON)
ESCOBAR (GUA)
RAMOS (MEX)

CONMEBOL
CLAUS (BRA)
MATONTE (URU)
ORTEGA (PER)
RAPALLINI (ARG)
SAMPAIO (BRA)
TELLO (ARG)
VALENZUELA (VEN)

OFC
CONGER (NZL)

UEFA
FRAPPART (FRA)
KOVACS (ROU)
MAKKELIE (NED)
MARCINIAK (POL)
MATEU LAHOZ (ESP)
OLIVER (ENG)
ORSATO (ITA)
SIEBERT (GER)
TAYLOR (ENG)
TURPIN (FRA)
VINCIC (SVN)

 

I think more than a 3 second slo-mo clip would be helpful to understanding the full context there. It looks like he follows through on the ankle after the initial knee contact, so sure red is in the realm of possibility. But I wouldn't say it's nailed-on just based off that clip (the title of which, I'd note, displays a tiny hint of bias). Regardless, Hernandez Hernandez is only going as a VAR and the standards he'd use for a decision like this would be much different anyway.

On a separate note, Conger had the UAE Cup Final Friday. Full match is in the link below (after more than an hour of pregame festivities). I think overall he did well, but it was a bit choppy at times. Conger is an interesting referee. I think he can handle a lot of different things well or above average, but I'm just not sure if he's at the class where FIFA would trust him with a really big game (both because of ability and politics). We shall see. Link and then some notes:



Pre-match clearing of the field is a bit comical (1:17:03 onwards)
The only goal of the match comes from a free kick that seems correct, but is awarded quite late, leading to the inevitable dissent (2:36:05)
56' tackle and aftermath was the one flashpoint where I think Conger just didn't handle it well, though to his credit (or luck) it didn't come to much afterward and it didn't lead to anything worse. Still, from not punishing the tackle to not really dealing with the afters well, it seemed like a lack of focus (2:40:55)
90+7' series of events where there is a possible elbow for a penalty kick, which ultimately leads to a VAR check, but then a counterattack of a ball played by a defender (so no offside) leading to a goal that is ruled out for a somewhat soft free kick (attacking foul) and then players thinking the match is over and rushing the field while the VAR check is going on. It's just... a lot. (3:21:27)

 

AFC published interviews with all its referee participants. Well, not all. Or maybe all. Hard to say. One referee who is listed as a referee for the tournament is conspicuously missing.

Here's the AFC page, where all videos are contained: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheAFCHub/videos

Here's a direct link to Faghani's, which is probably the most interesting given his past participation:

I should add the caveat that they've been posted 12, 10, 6, 4 and 1 day(s) ago. So maybe Yamashita's is still coming?

 

Chances Tello gave more red cards in his final pre-tournament match than will be given in all of WC22?

El que se fue tranquilo antes de ir a Catar es Facundo Tello 🙈🙈 pic.twitter.com/6j2bhmYsBC

— ArbitroInternacional (@ArbitroInteBlog) November 6, 2022

The fun starts around 8:30:

 

There's a trendline, though. For the tournaments with 32 teams and this format...

22, 17, 28, 17, 10, 4

Maybe a fluke. Maybe the game is being called a different way. Maybe player behavior has improved. Maybe, perversely, VAR is making referees avoid red cards that were previously given (because they don't want to "over-punish" on field and then the VAR reasons it's not clearly wrong). Maybe FIFA just wants fewer red cards.

Likely some combination of all those things.

But unless FIFA starts instructing referees the way the FFF is doing so in Ligue 1, I think you're going to be in the 2014-2018 zone insofar as total red cards go. I hope I'm wrong. Unless, of course, everyone is incredibly well-behaved. Then I hope I'm right!

 

Seems like an Argentinian thing. I've heard others say that, despite the 10 red cards (or maybe due to them?) Tello did really well in this match. It's pretty staggering how consistently good the top Argentinian referees end up being.

A friend made a good point and I don't plan on going back to watch so I'll ask it here... given the match was apparently abandoned/terminated, was there any pause between Tello giving the final red card and the awarding of the trophy? Like, technically, the match wasn't completed. There should have been some sort of governing body decision to declare Racing the winners. But the highlights make it seem like Racing just started celebrating and that was that. Granted, it was the inevitable outcome. But if this was, say, a semifinal, you'd be waiting a little bit to get the formal declaration that Racing advanced. And a corollary question that I'm sure affects bettors--was this a 2-1 win for Racing or was it a forfeit by Boca?

 

Without going too far down the rabbit hole, I just don't think this is true at all. It took literally launching an unprovoked war of aggression on a neighbor state for Russia to be kicked out and even that took some teeth-pulling. For better or worse (and in the sporting sense, I happen to think it's for the better), providing material and/or diplomatic support to such a country is just not going to get FIFA or the IOC there. It's too many steps removed.

As for Faghani, I think his ability to be appointed--aside from merit--is down to the normal geopolitical factors. I'm sure there might be certain matchups where an Iranian working would be unpalatable for one team or region. But the idea that an Iranian referee, returning to the World Cup and living in Australia could not work the World Cup Final because his home government helps Russia doesn't pass the smell test for me. If anything, it's worth remembering there was some controversy about Faghani retaining his Iranian FIFA badge while working in Australia--so I'd pay more attention to the possibility that the Iranian government or FA might not want him promoted too highly.

 

I actually think USA-Wales will be a big South American name for two reasons. One, it's in that very early opening window of the tournament where FIFA wants to set the tone. After Pitana on Day 1 last time, the Day 2 referees were Cakir, Rocchi and Kuipers. Second, USA v Wales is one of only two instances on Matchday 1 where the the clear joint competitors (on paper, at least) for second place are facing off (the other being Mexico v Poland... I put Group H aside because I think every match is big there). So it's an early, consequential match. If FIFA went outside South America, they would need one of their bigger names and the only truly "big" non-UEFA/CONMEBOL big names are Faghani, Elfath and Ramos who are all out for obvious reasons. So unless FIFA is ready to take a gamble that I don't think they want to take, it defaults to CONMEBOL.

I'd guess Rapallini for USA-Wales but wouldn't be surprised to see any of the Brazilian or Argentinian names (though would hope against Sampaio).

The latter two matches are harder to call because I think results, performance and other patterns will play a huge role.

I wouldn't be surprised to see England v USA go to UEFA, to be honest. I don't think the US would object, to the extent it has a say. But AFC does seem more likely there--not sure if Beath is too obvious of a choice but you have to think he would at least be under consideration (unless this one is also CONMEBOL and/or I am wrong about USA-Wales, in which case, yes, this defaults to CONMEBOL).

The USA-Iran match definitely goes to a European unless it's irrelevant (and even then it might). Depending upon its import, it could be used for anything from giving a European his second match parting gift before departure to hiding a potential semifinal referee who needs a second match before the knockout stages. I could see Mateu Lahoz here.

So I'll predict Rapallini-Beath-Mateu Lahoz but with a confidence level of somewhere around like 1%.

 

Wow! Never saw your post as I was typing mine and we--almost--reached the same conclusions.

If England does go CONMEBOL, it should go without saying it's a Brazilian before an Argentinian. And Beath on the Wales match is an interesting idea that I hadn't considered. I'll still stick with what I have because I think the Day 2 referees are going to be massively known quantities, but this is all very sensible.