P&CE Discussion of Tolkien, LOTR, Silmarillion, and Amazon’s Expensive Commercial Attempt at Fanfic

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, Sep 6, 2022.

  1. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    They sure have spent a lot of time on those characters, given that the only one who seems to be relevant to the plot is the mysterious big guy from the sky.
     
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  2. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
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    I admit that the Nori character is charming. But yeah, that subplot always slows things down, and at any rate hobbits of any kind are not supposed to be relevant in the second age.

    I want to see story development in Numenor, and also in the South with the orcs rising. I'm looking forward to watching it sometime this weekend.
     
  3. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
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    Jun 16, 1999
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    Along the lines of your hobbit comment and the speculation as to Sky Guy's identity, Gandalf (Olorin) doesn't get sent to Middle Earth until the third age, as well, right?
     
  4. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Arsenal
    Mar 12, 2004
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    Correct. He can't be Gandalf.

    Though arriving nestled in the middle of an asteroid would be a pretty cool way to come to Earth.
     
  5. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
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    As a certified Tolkien nerd I can assure you that Gandalf arrived to Middle Earth in the third age. Also, he arrived by sea and was greeted by the elf Cirdan at the Grey Havens. It was Cirdan who entrusted him with the ring of fire.

    However, there is a plot opening if they want to be weird in a Marvel Comics way. After Gandalf fell fighting the Balrog at Moria he passed out of time. In the Two Towers if I recall correctly he tells Aragorn that he has forgotten much that he knew and learned many new things (something like that).

    So, what if, after fighting the Balrog and presumably dying, Gandalf is brought back to the second age, for an important purpose, like to learn something he needs to know in the third age? It would fit with his being brought in a fireball and not remembering who he is.

    If that's what they are trying to do, then the purpose for Gandalf being there better be damn important!
     
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  6. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Whoa. That's some meta-LotR-nerd shit right there. :thumbsup:

    I was figuring it's one of the Blue Wizards, that it landed in the West before traveling East. They are only briefly mentioned at all in the Unfinished Tails, so I'm guessing they have lots of liberty to write their story as they wish.
     
  7. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

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    Saw a theory that Halbrand could end up being the king of the army of the dead that Aragorn leads in ROTK. I actually like this theory more than the others I’ve seen, him being Sauron seems stupid and the Witch King only slightly less. Could totally see him promising to help then bailing on Numenor.
     
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  8. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
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    Jun 16, 1999
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    I'm pretty sure they aren't sent until the third age, as well, but I could be wrong.

    [rushes off to lotr.fandom.com to check]

    Well, seems in The Peoples of Middle Earth, Christopher Tolkien speculates they may have shown up around the time of the forging of the rings.
     
  9. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

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    I watched a video on this recently (by Nerd of the Rings, who’s very good until he starts trying to do voices in character, super cringey). And apparently Tolkien originally said they came in the third age but modified that to second age in later writings, and he changed their (sparse) story significantly.

    But in both versions they we’re supposed to be good friends who arrived together, so if it is one of them this is very different.
     
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  10. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
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    That would be a nice arch. As I recall, he swore oaths and then betrayed Elendil, or Isildur, so the timeframe fits.
     
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  11. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Big foreshadowing too, when he cut his ship from the rest of the flotilla instead of trying to help others.
     
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  12. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    #162 rslfanboy, Sep 16, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
    For sure, but my point is that their story is basically completely untold. It wouldn't change much of the larger LotR world if only the Harfoots had interacted with one/them, and the whole thing was unnoticed by anyone else.

    edit: definitely much less of a modification than Galadriel's story arc.
     
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  13. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

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    Yeah totally agree, I’m actually leaning toward one of them being the likeliest choice. And maybe he’s even trying to find his buddy.

    I also just REALLY don’t want it to be Gandalf….
     
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  14. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Jun 27, 2000
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    Sauron disguised himself to befriend the Elves and work with them on the forging of some of the Rings of Power

    Sauron was a Maia
    Gandalf was a Maia

    If Gandalf was present at the time a disguised Sauron was mixing with the Elves, there is a good chance he would have recognized/felt the real Sauron

    Unless in the histories they have him come after Sauron revealed himself

    I don’t think Gandalf is the comet man, could be another Maia

    At least that’s what I suspect…. That or it’s Sauron himself
     
  15. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
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    Right. A new character would make more sense than an existing character, and the blue wizards had no role in the Lord of the Rings story. And that's why I don't think the stranger can possibly be Sauron. That would be a huge mistake.

    Sauron, for all of his grandiose plans to dominate every race, had completely overlooked hobbits, at least until he found out that one of them had the ring. He never made a ring for them, as they were of no account to him (or to elves men or any other sentient race), and it's likely that he might not even have known of their existence.

    So, it wouldn't make any sense that they would have been the ones who found him and interacted with him in the 2nd age.
     
  16. argentine soccer fan

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    Yeah, I agree. Don't ruin Gandalf like you ruined Galadriel. But, unfortunately, I could see them wanting to force Gandalf into the stories, as he is one of the most popular characters in the books and in the Peter Jackson movies.
     
  17. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
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    The writing for Galadriel remains horrid.
    I also find it hard to really care much about Elrond and Durin so far. I'm sure it'll become more significant soon enough but right now it isn't justifying the screentime devoted to it.
     
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  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
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    Jul 23, 2004
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    Personally I think seeing we know Saurons role in the forging of the rings/numenor he will need to be revealed to the audience but not to the elves or numenorians

    But i wonder if we even get up to that this season?
     
  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Also Sauron was already around in the 1A?

    He's been shown on screen already so he has to be already in middle earth.
     
  20. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

    Jun 18, 2005
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    YankBastard has entered the chat
     
  21. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Two of the four plot threads move -- Galadriel/Numenor, and Arondir/Southlands. The other two threads, being Elrond/Durin and the Hobbits/BIg Sky Guy, do not.
     
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  22. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
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    Right. And even the two that are moving could move a bit faster.
     
  23. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Such are series. Edit the thing, and it might make for a good 2 1/2 hour film.
     
  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
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    Jul 23, 2004
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    I switched it off after 15 mins

    At least tits and dragons has some upsides - this is like season 2 of the walking dead with epic production values of Herschel's barn
     
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  25. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Side point, but the scene of Rhaenyra leaving the palace at night in Episode 4, wandering the streets in a giddy and intoxicated daze, and eventuslly losing all inhibitions was brilliantly filmed. It was perhaps the most convincing depiction of youhful bad judgement that i have seen. I felt as if I were 18 once again.

    There's no brilliance like that associated with ROP. I am not knocking the show, mind you, just saying that its filmmakers don';t have that special touch.
     
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