Matchweek 2 Aston Villa - Leeds Referee: Michael Oliver. Assistants: Stuart Burt, Simon Bennett. Fourth official: Tom Bramall. VAR: Andy Madley. Assistant VAR: Constantine Hatzidakis. Arsenal - Leicester Referee: Darren England. Assistants: James Mainwaring, Wade Smith. Fourth official: Robert Jones. VAR: Mike Dean. Assistant VAR: Derek Eaton. Brighton - Newcastle Referee: Graham Scott. Assistants: Adrian Holmes, Mark Scholes. Fourth official: Gavin Ward. VAR: Craig Pawson. Assistant VAR: Darren Cann. Man City - Bournemouth Referee: David Coote. Assistants: Nick Hopton, Timothy Wood. Fourth official: Josh Smith. VAR: Peter Bankes. Assistant VAR: Adam Nunn. Southampton - Leeds Referee: Tony Harrington. Assistants: Simon Long, Richard West. Fourth official: Michael Salisbury. VAR: Simon Hooper. Assistant VAR: Dan Cook. Wolves - Fulham Referee: John Brooks. Assistants: Neil Davies, Natalie Aspinall. Fourth official: David Webb. VAR: Jarred Gillett. Assistant VAR: Steve Meredith. Brentford - Man Utd Referee: Stuart Attwell. Assistants: Marc Perry, Eddie Smart. Fourth official: Anthony Taylor. VAR: Paul Tierney. Assistant VAR: Gary Beswick. Nottingham Forest - West Ham Referee: Robert Jones. Assistants: Lee Betts, Ian Hussin. Fourth official: Simon Hooper. VAR: Michael Salisbury. Assistant VAR: Richard West. Chelsea - Tottenham Referee: Anthony Taylor. Assistants: Gary Beswick, Adam Nunn. Fourth official: Peter Bankes. VAR: Mike Dean. Assistant VAR: Mark Scholes. Liverpool - Crystal Palce Referee: Paul Tierney. Assistants: Dan Cook, Dan Robathan. Fourth official: Craig Pawson. VAR: Andre Marriner. Assistant VAR: Nick Hopton. Taylor for the big London derby with Dean in the booth. Aspinall makes her debut as AR.
@Mikael_Referee - looking at the first Fulham goal again. Do you think the technical argument actually being made is that Henderson is fouled after he plays the ball away poorly and therefore the foul itself doesn't strictly fall within the APP? It would be a very specific argument to make but I could see a governing body or VAR hanging their hat on that. Would be very interested to see what PRO or UEFA or FIFA said if a VAR didn't intervene based on that specific logic. But the "17 seconds is too long" stuff is total garbage. The question is whether or the 0.25 seconds between Henderson playing the ball and getting fouled matters.
So what you are saying is that we cannot believe anything they say in the way of analysis etc. Based on the most recent one, I agree with you. Having said that, this is the 2nd time they were equivocal regarding RC tackles not given by Tierney. What does it mean, "more RC but no intervention OK?" Surely if it is more of a RC than a YC, there should be intervention! Listening to Gallagher reminds me of many political statements and speeches. Mostly spin and hot air. Really disgraceful and sickening for such an organization. PH
I'm loathe to dive into the "big match" debate but I think another thing to keep an eye on is which referees land in the stand-alone tv slots. Granted, sometimes the big matches just happen to be in the tv slots. But sometimes matches are bigger because they have more eyes in those tv slots. There are 5 simultaneous fixtures on Saturday, leaving the other 5 matches to... Oliver, Attwell, Jones, Taylor and Tierney. For GW1, those referees who worked stand-alone matches were... Gillett, Tierney, Oliver, Madley, Pawson and Taylor. I think you're going to see "Oliver, Taylor, Tierney" in those slots almost every week. For me, the big question is which other referee(s) you see getting those matches regularly.
No. In fact, PRO does this all the time with its referees. "More red card than yellow card" or "more penalty than not" does not equal "clearly a red card" or "clearly a penalty." There are two different standards, as there are supposed to be. So, in the PRO setting you can actually see a referee get hit on his assessment for NOT giving a preferred red card and then a VAR hit on his assessment for recommending a review because it wasn't a clear red card. The trifecta would be when a referee wrongly accepts a bad recommendation for an incident where a red card is preferred but not clear (though this nightmare scenario feels more theoretical than one of reality--maybe it has happened once or twice but I can't say for sure). We're through the looking glass with this sort of stuff, but it shouldn't be surprising given that the subjective standard for VAR intervention is designed to be different from the on-field assessment.
Good points. Obviously Taylor and Oliver being the two top referees is to be expected. But putting Tierney in with them seems to be a stretch. I know that has happened for weeks 1 & 2 but these were probably assigned earlier. There is a huge gap between the top two and the 2nd tier pack, and the third pick would be more variable. It is just the least worst of the available options based on other considerations. Maybe one of the newer faces will come to the fore. PH
This is more crazy than I had thought! Yes, there is the spectrum between yellow and red cards that we have all seen in clinics, and I have used myself with clear RC being at the far right end of the chart. But it is not the only position on the spectrum for which a RC is warranted. Getting into the light red area is still in the red area. It may not be as bad as some other RC fouls, but it is still a red card. But it seems that in this case the post-match review, and in your PRO example, there should have been a red card given. So if I understand what you are saying is that in the this case the referee was wrong, but not very wrong, so the VAR should remain silent? Kinda defeats the object, doesn't it? I'm going back to bed PH
Yes on the first question. And "maybe" on the second one? To the latter question, I guess a lot depends on how wide the gulf is between "preferred" and "clearly wrong" and how much a referee is punished or reprimanded for simply missing a "preferred" decision. If the gulf between preferred and clearly wrong isn't that wide and referees aren't facing huge repercussions for missing "preferred" decisions, then I can see it all as a way of slowly moving everyone in the right direction over time. It feels like that is how PRO is using the distinction. But I doubt that's what's happening in England.
So therefore they think that McTominay could/should have been sent off. This is truly mind-boggling! For many years, I assessed in MLS and later in PRO. But I gave it up a few years back because I did not agree with how things were going and the role of the assessor/coach/mentor as well as some of the "official" interpretations and felt I was wasting my time and efforts. This was prior to the introduction of VAR, which is just as well because I certainly could not have accepted this current system anyway. However, I do think that overall the refereeing quality in MLS is much better now than prior to PRO and I am pleased for that. The PGMOL situation is totally bewildering and illogical as well. They have not made things better, just the opposite. PH
Sorry for being a bit late to this but yes, excellent point. In their confused understanding (-> disallowing this goal would be VAR overreach in football sphere's opinion -> how do we orate this as a judgement? -> well let's just say it is too long using jargony terms we don't actually grasp like APP), but if they thought about it, then yes the 'extranousness' of the incident to the APP forming is the key point. Though I criticise them, it is point that also evaded me until you made it . PGMOL really don't understand the APP stuff at all. I just remembered about the Pawson - De Gea disallowed goal in Liverpool vs. Man Utd in 19/20!
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the mass downloader for the site I stream or DL the EPL games (fast forwarding to key ref decisions) to work so getting all the matches and getting the clips of them to post here didn't work. Sent it to Mikael to see if he has any luck.
Should this have been a penalty for Aston Villa? Matty Cash goes down after a tug of the shirt from Vitaly Mykolenko. 📺: @USA_Network #MyPLMorning | #AVLEVE pic.twitter.com/rPJtbfPvUJ— NBC Sports Soccer (@NBCSportsSoccer) August 13, 2022 Two ways to look at this (ignoring the VAR aspects). Oliver clearly indicates it’s “not enough.” He’s essentially saying it’s a minor pull and the fall isn’t commensurate with the hold. Okay. That’s consistent with the EPL’s direction to allow more contact or physical play. So what behavior change will this sort of officiating hasten? Will it make players fall less in an attempt to win penalties since they know they won’t be easily given? Or will it encourage more holding because defenders know blatant holding won’t be easily punished if it’s only brief or minor? I tried to write those two options without showing my bias, but it feels impossible to do. It’s just like the people who issue directives never think through the larger-scale consequences. And everyone forgets the mantra of “what you allow, you encourage.”
Watch Oliver’s body language — he signals “small arm on shoulder”, and “not enough”. I don’t think he saw the shirt pull at all and had to deduce what happened.
I caught the “not enough” and “small” but are you certain he says/indicates arm on shoulder and not pull? It’s a relevant question for accuracy but, at the same time, I’m not sure it makes a difference here. Unless the pull definitely continued into the area and then the VAR could advise Oliver that his perception was clearly wrong. Of course, it’s England so that’s not happening anyway.
McTominay gets YC again. Similar to last week, he misplays the ball and goes in late on his opponent, with studs into the leg again. Whereas last week it should have been red (which was confirmed by PGMOL via Gallagher), this time the force was weaker and the foul was not as far along the yellow to red spectrum, so YC is the correct result. Although the opponent was hurt, and took some time to recover. PH
Not that I would love the penalty call, but are we sure Vardy's left arm doesn't make contact with Ramsdale's left shoulder/arm? I just can't get over how bad English VARing is in all respects. From an operational point of view, there's just no way that the one angle shown here is the best and the one that proves "clearly wrong." Dean needs to do better and England needs to ask for more. That's probably not a good penalty call but I can easily envisage an angle that shows it to be a foul, too. The absence of evidence isn't evidence, and all that... you need to find and show the exculpatory angle(s) that prove no contact to get an overturn in almost any other competition.
I checked carefully for the same but I think Vardy rather pushes against Ramsdale than the other way around. But completely agree with you. The whole OFR had exactly the same feeling as Elizondo-García-Zidane: pure show! This was essentially the same as 19/20 PL VAR but instead England in body (not spirit) went to RRA before changing call.