The USMNT 26-man roster for World Cup 2022 announced p80 #1991

Apparently, in the "deeper statistics" Brandon is showing up as the best hold-up CF in the league. I'm guessing it is one of those statistics that measure chains of events.

 

I go back and forth about Vasquez in some ways. I think he has shown he deserves a shot at the 9 relative to the current options and how we are likely playing. But I also think that we would be better off in a 2 forward setup that does not rely on having a center forward and in that case, he'd be just one of many and not look as obvious. I mean, if you could throw Pulisic/Weah up top and have say Aaronson, Morris behind them and this could also open up things for someone like Mihailović who could fit in a two man front line with our current 9s also in the mix, suddenly Vasquez doesn't look strictly necessary, more one of many possibilities. But, if you're having to decide between Ferreira, Pepi, Pefok and such and sticking with the plan, then Vasquez looks to have as good a shot as most of them to get us a goal and looks like someone that needs to be called in since we're struggling to fill the position. I guess it comes down to what really is the question. Is the question, who are your top picks for how we could play or who is your top pick if you take Berhalter's tactics and strategy as a given and narrow your picks to who could fit within this system. I mean sure, I guess it is more realistic to accept that we can't change the system, but we can't pick the players either so I'm not sure either is more or less of a practical discussion point anyway.

 

Sounds like a Marsch amoeba 4-2-2-2 kind of thing

 

A 2 forward setup in a 4222 with say, Pulisic and Weah with Reyna and Aaronson behind them looks fantastic from a counter-attacking standpoint. In the open field, that's a great mix -- everyone can go inside and out, it has tremendous speed and Aaronson and Reyna (and Weah) are effective defensively, so it's not some kind of disaster there even if you are thinning out spaces.

I think the problem with it comes that you have to go full Red Bull really. Pulisic and Weah are not effective strikers in the box, there's no aerial game, when the defense sets we're going to have a bunch of guys dribbling outside the box. I think in a club set up you could do some really creative things with runs and McKennie, but there's no time for that here.

I think the same is true of those guys in any striker set up. They aren't strikers. They'd be talented guys we put at striker. So they are great in open field situations or where they can play like wingers ... but asking them to make the right run to occupy centerbacks or tease apart a bunker really seems unlikely to me.

I think it's a viable look but if we aren't bringing other strikers, then we are basically committing a full on press and counter all tourney. Maybe I'm not, but I just don't see an effective "half-court" offense with a two striker system up top with the players we are talking.

But I also think it's silly to argue Vazquez for the World Cup roster right now. The decision at hand is the September window roster. We shouldn't take BV blind, but we don't have to.

 

I think this idea that if you play two up top instead of a central striker that you are somehow instantly a counterattack only team who can't possess is just not necessarily true. And we are very likely to field a team with little aerial threat as it is. Dike is strong in the air but is hurt and have never really played much anyway. Pefok is decent in the air, Pepi isn't short but isn't a strong player. Ferreira is no aerial threat and he's the leading candidate to start as a 9 the way things have looked. So I guess I fail to see the giant red flags over moving away from the three across the front and needing a central striker. I do see red flags having to decide between a bunch of unproven strikers none of whom have looked particularly dangerous very often and relying on one of your lesser players to lead the line at a World Cup.

 

vazquez has two more goals, only one less assist and does actual forward things ferreira cant while covering all the special berhalter requirements: he presses, good motor, shows deep etc. all in the same league with a less talent around him but a comparable record- and ferreira is our starting st.

im not even a little interested in seeing wishy-washy opinions on vazquez.

ive got a hunch a whole lot of people here are going to be very, very in favor of "getting guys already in theh team reps" come camp.

 

If we have to play a 4-3-3 I want to see as much Basquez and Pefok as possible in September. Unless their production vs WC caliber squads is compared uncritically to JF’s vs Morocco.

 

Well, Vaqsuez does all those Berhalter requirements in MLS. It remains to be seen that he can do it at the NT level.

Ferriera has done all those things in NT games that actually matter.

 

That's not what I am saying. I'm saying that players like Pulisic and Weah do not have the skillset to succeed as strikers against a set defense.

It's not how they play. It doesn't align with what they are good at. They haven't been playing the position, so all the pattern recognition that comes in sports isn't there. Pulisic barely makes runs as a winger -- he stops and points to his feet. We think he's going to be an effective in the box striker? We think he's going to bang with CBs?

What will almost certainly happen is that they will swing out and play as wingers. And yes, there's some offense with the two CMs making runs, etc., but I don't think we're going to be more effective with less players in the box. If anything, we're simply going to be seeing more dribbly, hero ball, and that's been our biggest issue to date.

Most of the teams that play a 4222 force transition to the point of turnover for a reason.

I think we've all gotten a little too far down on a striker crew if we're looking to force two of our best players into sub-optimal positions and roles and looking to completely mix everything up with about two weeks of camp before the World Cup.

 

You keep saying "Morocco," which is quite definitely a World Cup caliber squad. They are in Group F with Canada.

I assume you mean "Grenada." But there's no way that Berhalter's decision making process is a) limited to only international gameplan b) doesn't take into account difficulty of opponent.

In fact, he literally said he played Wright against the harder opponent to get a better read on him. Grenada is not being used as an evaluative point for ANY player. It's a game we had to play, and at most it could be a nice confidence boost.

 

I've flirted with the setup of Pulisic and Weah as the 2 up, and Reyna + Aaronson as the 2 in behind.

But who are you sacrificing then? I think you could make the case for Musah or McKennie. McKennie provides aerials & Musah more positional discipline + dribbling to beat the opposing press.

Ultimately I think it would be Musah who's sacrificed, because of the seniority for Wes, and aerials he provides that CP & Weah lacks. You either counter and they're in open space, or you're in possession and Wes has time to get into the box and be out on the end of a cross in tight space.

So I do think it works both ways offensively. As for defense, I think it's harder to press out of, and cover the fb's w/ opposing wing backs. But many teams try and succeed to degrees pressing w/ nominally 2 up instead of 3. Press would be important if you don't have someone like Musah out there to carry the ball fw. But maybe that's where Gio comes in, dropping back to do it.

Defensively, if Wes is tasked w/ charging into the box, it's going to put plenty of pressure on Adams and the cb's. There's going to be no Musah out there in the double-pivot. Can BA drop back & does he have the requisite mettle.

At some point does it just make sense to sacrifice one of BA or CP & play it straighter? Against your better teams like England, it probably does, or it's going to cost you. The middling teams like Iran & Wales are tougher to gameplan against, because you can't tell what they're capable of against you until you see it. Morocco wasn't a bad dress rehearsal & it went real well. But you don't know if those teams are playing you seriously in friendlies. Same goes for Japan & the Saudis.

These are the conundrums that are presented when you're the USMNT manager & if you pick the right path at the fork you earned your place and millions. It's a lot more complex than being Spain's manager, even if that's a sexier job and you're paid more.

 

You and I are typical opposites when it comes to time. I have a German time obsession. I am never late. You seem like the type who always has something left to be done at the 11th hour and insists there's more than enough time for it.

 

I continue to hold the position that I've held since the spring - Gio Reyna is not a lock for the World Cup until he proves he is healthy at Dortmund by making the 18 and hopefully playing every week.

 

McKennie is our toughest player (when healthy) who will play physically. Nobody else on the field for us plays like that. We need him out there.

 

I don't really count on him at all. He's the guy with the asterisk. I don't count on McKennie anymore either due to his shoulder issue. I'd rather play a player I dislike who is 100% fit than a player I like who is protecting an injury. I think most professional clubs, at least in soccer, have come around to that kind of thinking as well.

 

Depends on if Reyna is back and especially if he or Aaronson are getting consideration for one the the midfield spots.

 

I'm a little surprised - I didn't think you had Weston McKennie in your Top 100 group of US players, much less the 26 players going to Qatar.

 

Yes, but I still get it done at the deadline, and the work usually benefits from that due diligence of time spent tweaking and mastering until the end.

Really it's just a difference in philosophy in system vs. personnel. I favor personnel, especially at the int'l level, where time is limited. It's more going to come down to instincts in the end then, and just having the players with the right ones, who complement each other from their attributes & decades of training.

I wish we were further along on the personnel front, due to proper early experimentation over the last 5 years, & not having our more talented generation being so youthful. But that is indeed the situation. So you work w/ what you got.

I think if we add the right fits or press the right buttons here at the end, in conjunction w/ favorable ko match-ups, we could make a run. But if we rest on our laurels, we could be too holesy, w/ a virtual peak of just getting out of the group, with a good chance of being bounced before that.

We are in a similar situation as in '02, and to some degree '10. In '02 we had key youngsters who were gaining experience late. In '10 we added Herc & Buddle late, to some benefit.

 

Klinsmann always emphasized "rythm".

 

So that would seem an emphasis on existing players getting reps in the "system" to gain a rhythm. Whatever that system was for Jurgen. In the WC I guess it was bunker. Before and after he was hyping being progressive. But the results were spotty. You can't fit square pegs in round holes.

The most personnel forward manager rhetorically was Bruce Arena, which certainly worked out the first time at least.

 

except score...and all the things forwards do.

but im sure youre right. excuse after excuse to keep things exactly as they are is clearly the way to go.

 

Klinsmann should have "experimented" more. He would always say "now is not the time for experiments". So, when was the time? Never. He wanted experienced players in a pool that was begging for experience- experience he wouldn't give them. That's how he ended up playing an old Dempsey and old Wondo up top trying to get behind the Argentine line and never registering a shot in Copa America. I always wondered what Andrew Wenger would have done if Klinsmann had called him up in Wenger's rookie year. Ditto Hedges (who got one call up and did well and was never heard from again til it was too late to learn the international game.)

Berhalter turned out to be much better than Klinsmann when it comes to experimenting. Good for him.

 

All this talk about playing with 2 forwards is pure fun. Unfortunately I have some highly confidential info for you: WC starts in 3 months, and our coach is Berhalter who isn't able to change his mind in less than half a year.

 

Everyone agrees on about 24 guys, with a little variation. That would be roughly a starter a backup at each position plus a third keeper and forward. For the last two spots:

#25 - The Fifth Center Back - I'll go with Tim Ream. My idea about this is similar to my thinking about Brad Guzan as the 3rd keeper before his injury. Veteran leader who has played big games and who you can have some confidence isn't going to wet his pants if he's thrust into a semifinal due to cards and injuries.

#26 ....... I'm going with ..... Jack McGlynn. The U20s might have a few better prospects. But none of them have McGlynn's cannon shot from distance. I'm guessing that the scouts for England, Wales and Iran haven't scoured game tapes of Philly Union. They won't see it coming. He can also fill the hole for a left-foot free kick taker off the bench.

If Gio can't go, which look more and more likely, then I'd replace him with Ledezma. They seem like similar players to me.

 

I think Sands will take spot 25 due to versatility. He’s your fifth cb and third dm. I think Tillman is in so the 26th spot will come down to Arriola/Morris. I don’t think both will go, assuming health elsewhere.