Johnny Futbol: The John Brooks Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by ImaPuppy, Jun 16, 2014.

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Where does John Brooks sit in your USMNT Depth Chart?

  1. Dead lock starting CB

    3 vote(s)
    3.6%
  2. In CB rotation

    31 vote(s)
    36.9%
  3. Backup CB

    13 vote(s)
    15.5%
  4. Fringe

    16 vote(s)
    19.0%
  5. Not on the plane to Qatar

    21 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    As far I can tell, this discussion about how Brooks' wage/salary demands are an issue..................................is based on assumptions.

    I have no idea what the issue is.
    Seriously, I haven't really seen any column from a reputable reporter on why Brooks isn't at a club.
     
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  2. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #477 MarioKempes, Aug 8, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
  3. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good catch. Luan Peres, $5.75M. Looks like they passed on Brooks.
     
  4. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    There are some assumptions involved -- and you're correct there's been essentially no reporting on this, so we're all kind of in the dark. But there is also some solid basis for the assumptions people are making. This post from gogorath was what sold me:

    That means if Brooks were to accept a salary commensurate with what a CB with his profile and resume would normally be making even in a top 4 league, he would have to accept a massive pay cut relative to last season. That can obviously be a tough pill to swallow, so it seems highly plausible to me that: 1) he would be trying to hold out for an offer that comes close to what he was previously making; and 2) he may end up having to wait a long time, if not forever, for an offer like that.
     
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  5. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Admittedly it is rumor and innuendo but most also admit he is likely not getting what he was at Wolfsburg.

    I think whether journalists are reputable or not, and whether wages are the issue or not, most agree that the silence around Brooks is rather odd. Like even with other Yanks that had quick moves come together there was noise. Maybe not concrete teams but the "interest from teams in xyz" noise. With Brooks we have had 3 flimsy rumors. One of Hoffenheim due to a connection there, one to San Jose, and one to Saudi Arabia.

    Even as someone who is not a big fan of Brooks and thinks US fans vastly overrate him, the lack of interest is surprising so far. Even with me saying his age and player profile work against him you are now seeing other older, slower CBs get interest but as coverage. Makes me wonder if there is interest but they see Brooks as a bench option.
     
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  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Who the hell knows? :)
    Its possible that he's had significant interest, and even offers, but hasn't found an opportunity he likes yet. And now its a game of musical chairs, and the number of teams that need him, can afford him & want him..................has dwindled. Players take pay cuts all the time. They now how the game is played. I'm sure Matt Miazga took a pay cut to sign with Cincinnati.

    But we're all just making assumptions. Folks saying its about his performance on the field the last coupling of years are assuming. People who are saying that the injuries over the last two years have taken something out of him, are assuming it. People talking about how his salary demands are an issue, are assuming it.

    Something is afoot and I have no clue.
     
  7. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I'm honestly not sure if Miazga did have to take a paycut. When I search online, everything I'm seeing is suggesting that Miazga was making under $1m at Chelsea, while there are several American CBs making over $1m in MLS (including, for instance, Tim Parker). I'm guessing it's close at least.

    But even if Miazga is taking a paycut, I doubt it's anywhere close to as big as what Brooks is likely faced with at the moment.
     
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I get what you're saying, but there's zero evidence that Brooks is:

    A) Being asked to take a paycut.
    B) Is unwilling to take a paycut.
    C) Doesn't have a club because he can't find a salary situation he likes.

    Its all an assumption...............................zero evidence for it.
     
  9. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Member+

    Nov 10, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Yeah I thought Matt's wages were higher because word from Anderlecht was they wanted him back but not at his wages though it looks like it would be relatively low. Brooks was making more than 4 times what Miazga was making with only Max Arnold making more for Wolfsburg
     
  10. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    #485 KALM, Aug 8, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
    According to the website Capology, here were the 5 highest paid CBs in the Bundesliga last season (only counting players whose primary position is listed as CB on Transfermarkt):

    1. Hernandez (Bayern) - €18m
    2. Upamecano (Bayern) - €10m
    2. Hummels (Dortmund) - €10m
    4. Sule (Bayern) - €7m
    5. Brooks (Wolfsburg) - €3.95m

    And here were the salaries for the starting CBs at Hoffenheim last season, which was the one club in a top league that Brooks was linked to early in the transfer window. (Kicker reported the interest, but then later stated Brooks was no longer an option.) Keep in mind, this was a side that finished in the top half of the table last season:

    Vogt - €1.7m
    Posch - €1m
    (The #3 CB Richards was at €780k, but he was on loan and presumably would have gotten a pay bump if Hoffenheim had signed him permanently.)

    Assuming that was the sort of club that was interested in him, Brooks's salary last year was somewhere between 2.3 to nearly 4 times as high as those of the starting CBs last season.

    So yes, it's speculation that the hold up here is over salary concerns. But there are some striking data points in this case to support that theory.
     
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  11. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well A) and B) were already established at the end of the '21 season when Wolfsburg opened negotiations on a salary extension. There were reports in the fall and as recently as Jan '22 that Wolfsburg had made counter offers but JAB's side would not agree.

    VfL Wolfsburg are looking into the possibility of extending John Anthony Brooks' contract, according to Sport bild.

    But the player's wages could be a sticking point in their negotiations over a deal beyond 2022, at which point the centre-back's current contract expires.

    Brooks currently receives around €4 million per year and is unlikely to be offered a substantial salary increase amid the financial impact of the coronavirus pandemic.

    The U.S. international joined Wolfsborg form Hertha BSC in 2017. He has made 24 appearances this season, scoring twice.


    https://bulinews.com/news/7607/report-wolfsburg-ready-offer-brooks-contract-extension
     
  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yeah, but that said his wages "could be a sticking point."

    No evidence that they actually are.

    John Anthony Brooks had a fantastic season two years ago. Arguably the best season ever by an American CB. That's not hyperbole. I refuse to believe his dropoff last season was so significant that he can't find a job. Maybe his salary was too much for Wolfsburg, a team that barely escape relegation and needs to rebuild. But it shouldn't be for every club on Earth.

    John Anthony Brooks two years ago was a superior player than Chris Richards was last year for Hoffenheim. I don't think that's questionable. [I'm talking club soccer, not the USMNT. And granted that performance was two years ago] Chris Richards can find a job on a 5 year contract worth a reported $15 million. So $3 million a year. He's a player on the rise. John Anthony Brooks should be in his prime NOW for a centerback. He's 29. Unless injuries have taken a lot out of him (maybe they have)...................I refuse to believe he can't find a job.

    I'm not some big John Anthony Brooks apologist. I'm OK with Berhalter leaving him out. All I'm saying is that there's something I really don't understand here. Maybe its that the thigh and back injuries are a big problem for a guy that's 6'4". I don't know. But my eyeballs tell me he's a really good CB, that any number of clubs should be happy to sign.

    [By the way, I understand why an MLS club like San Jose wouldn't want to use a DP slot on a CB. A very low percentage of MLS DPs are centerbacks.]
     
  13. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    I don’t get the urge to use the information vacuum to ascribe bad mental problems to one of the few active American players who has played and scored in a WC. Is it just part of the overreaction to perceived unfair criticism of Berhalter? Is creating these narratives around players the way to respond to that criticism?
     
  14. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not on board with those rumors but there have been some clashes reported over the years like missing time for getting tattoos somewhere (if that's actually true). If it's minor stuff like that I'd chalk it up to growing up and I've never heard more than that. I'm firmly in the camp of a good player but not a good fit for current team tactics like Ream and Pefok but tactics change and that could explain why GB never writes him off. Why would he? Injuries can always crop up and you may need him again.
     
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  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    There's plenty of evidence for it.

    Evidence:
    • Brooks was a highly paid centerback
    • Brooks and Wolfsburg could not come to an agreement on a contract going forward despite him playing fairly well for Wolfsburg, and at least one reporter commented that pay was a sticking point
    • The leagues Brooks has been rumored with -- MLS and Saudi Arabia -- tend to be places where the upper echelon of players can be overpaid relative to league quality
    And when he finally does sign, it almost certainly won't be for $4M unless it is in Saudi Arabia or China or something.

    This really isn't hard to put together. I am not a Brooks stan at all, but if the guy was willing to take a $1M salary, he'd have a team easy by now.
     
  16. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    This, from the "I get to have my opinions" guy?
     
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  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    What "bad mental problems" are you referring to?

    Brooks does have a history of coach conflicts over the years. Nothing big, but they are there. He does have a history of inconsistency as well. But I haven't seen anyone list a "bad mental problem."

    I really don't see how this is really all that relevant to anything at this point. Especially the scoring.
     
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  18. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Sciaretta mentioned his history in either Scuffed or TSS podcast and even gave the opinion that he plays best when angry or wanting to prove a point.
     
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  19. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Assumption. Assumption. Assumption.
     
  20. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it is going to be Saudi Arabia. Their league starts in 16 days and some chatter about Al-Nasser who recently sold a left footed CB to Cruz Azul. Doesn’t seem like a lot of competition for JB at whatever current price point is so both sides can drag it out to try and leverage favorable terms.
     
  21. iad_22201

    iad_22201 Member+

    Jan 2, 2009
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Someone clearly doesn't understand the difference between fact and assumption .
     
  22. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    None of my three bullet points are assumptions. Two are easily verifiable facts and the third is a characterization I don't think I could find any disagreement with.

    Yes, I've deduced a probable logical conclusion from the available facts. This is how normal people exist in the world.

    I've got to go to the grocery store today. It's a fact it was there on Friday when I went, and it's a fact there's been no news stories claiming it was blown up by rogue operatives, so I am going to assume it will be functional when I arrive today.

    I am making an assumption based on available info and facts and I feel pretty confident of my results.
     
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  23. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Does that pass for a substantive rejoinder in your world. Give me an examp,e of when I said that and we can discuss it. But meanwhile it isn’t a refutation of my point here.
     
  24. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    What's to refute in a vacuum? Nothing, so there no point to that.

    Maybe I'm wrong but you've always seemed the guy that likes to keep and defend his opinion. Let others keep theirs.
     
  25. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Happy to defend my own words. So there is nothing more to say since I never denied anyone’s right to keep and defend their opinions.
     

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