The Netherlands - Oranje Leeuwinnen & Eredivisie

Discussion in 'Women's International' started by desinho, Jan 11, 2022.

  1. JanBalk

    JanBalk Member+

    Jun 9, 2004
    #176 JanBalk, Aug 7, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
    Just to qualify directly, they get a chance in the UEFA play-off for it they fail that.
     
  2. Philipp Morgenstern

    Manchester United
    Australia
    Oct 30, 2021
    Sorry, if they lose to Iceland would they have to play in the first round of playoffs?.
     
  3. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    If they lose they would finish with 17 points.
    They would have to play in the first play-off round if at least three second placed teams finish better.

    Group A: Ireland can finish with 17 points. They have to beat Finland(H) and Slovakia(A) and also catch up 7 goals compared to Netherlands.

    Group B: Scotland can get maximum 16 points.

    Group D: Austria can finish with maximum 19 points. They play against England and North Macedonia. If they get 4 points from these games and finish with 17 points it will be relevant for goal difference if North Macedonia or Latvia finish last.
    If England lose against Austria(A) and Luxembourg(H):eek: they would finish with 18 points.

    Group E: Neither Bosnia and Herzegovina or Montenegro can get 17 points.

    Group F: Belgium has 16 points and would have to catch up 3 goals compared to Netherlands if they draw with Norway. Norway would get 19 points with a win against Albania(H).

    Group G: Switzerland will get 19 points if they win in Croatia. If Italy lose against Romania(H) they would have 18 points. Romania will get maximum 16 points.

    Group H: Serbia can finish with 18 points if they beat Portugal(H) and Israel(A).
    Portugal can get maximum 16 points. Germany would only finish with less than 18 points if they don`t win in Turkey, lose in Bulgaria and Bulgaria win by at least two goals in Israel.

    Group I: None of Wales, Slovenia or Greece can finish with more than 16 points.

    We have three groups where the second placed team can`t finish ahead of Netherlands, one group where the second placed team would likely be better(Group G) and four groups where it`s difficult to predict.
     
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  4. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    When and where is the Iceland match? The Dutch have problems at forward position.
     
  5. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    6th September in Utrecht.
     
  6. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Whew! Playing at home should help a lot.
     
  7. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    Yeah. In the first Iceland match, they relied on a player who normally positively impacts matches outside of direct goal contributions to come up with a good assist and a great goal. Those two Czech Republic matches were just weird; that being said, the US had little issue with Iceland while only drawing Czech Republic at the She Believes Cup. Similar to the Dutch in this WWC qualifying campaign; they relied on Groenen and Van de Donk for the goals, but their overall play was definitely more solid vs Iceland than in either match vs the Czech Republic.
     
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  8. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Parsons leaves his role -

     
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  9. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Wow, I didn't expect that! :eek:

    Netherlands will have to move soon, since the last WWC 2023 qualifier matches are just around the corner.

    Disappointment for Dutch display at the Euro? Or there just wasn't chemistry with the team? :cautious:
     
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  10. desinho

    desinho Member

    Liverpool FC
    Spain
    Aug 7, 2007
    Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Safe to say he didn't 'leave' his role... Logical short term and perhaps long term replacement was already sat on the bench next to him and coaching the U20's at the WC right now
     
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  11. shlj

    shlj Member+

    Apr 16, 2007
    London
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Yeah, obviously the players did not want to work with him any more.
     
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  12. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    She said she wasn't ready for the job a year ago--and I frankly doubt that she's ready for it now. As I wrote above, I don't understand why Arjan Veurink--Wiegman's longtime top assistant--wasn't offered the job when Wiegman left. Wouldn't he be the logical successor, especially given that there were no other obvious replacements?

    Parsons walked into a bad situation. First, he's not Dutch and so there he was following a Dutch coach who was also a former player and who could relate deeply to the players. A foreigner taking over a veteran team was never going to be easy. Just the opposite. Perhaps even more important, whereas Wiegman took over a golden generation just hitting its prime six years ago, Parsons inherited a team that is arguably past its prime and has obvious personnel issues. I give Parsons and his staff credit for bringing young players into the squad. I wasn't sure it was the right time to do that, just before the Euros, but it's plain to see that it was time--as the team needs some young talent.
     
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  13. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    This is highly reminiscent of the Dutch men's team in 1990 that utterly failed in the World Cup that year after winning the Euros in 1988. They wanted Cruyff to manage the team and he did not want the job so the FA appointed Beenhaaker who the players hated. Three draws in group play and a round of 16 loss to Germany sent a team that had Gullit, van Basten, Rijkaard, Koeman and others back home. Parsons looked uncomfortable during the Euros and maybe the players did not like him. I hope Sept 6 does not follow like that one.
     
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  14. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017

    Apparently not. The NOS story I read (in translation) made that point--but didn't offer any real insight. It pulled out an old quote from Van de Donk after the France match in the Euros which she said the Dutch "played too defensively" for her attacking game, but was it the coach or the players/talent that was the issue in that game. France was better--much better in the first half--when the Dutch couldn't keep the ball. You can't attack if you keep getting dispossessed and give the ball away. The article also tried to make a big deal of the fact that Parsons got a late start joining the team because of his commitment to stay with the Portland Thorns a few more weeks. I doubt that was that significant.

    One analyst in the piece suggested that Chelsea's Emma Hayes would be a good coach for the Dutch. She's an excellent coach--but you'd still have the language/culture issue, and beyond that I don't think she's going to leave Chelsea to coach the team--though she is certainly worth approaching. With so little time I'd be surprised if they didn't offer it to Torny--who is coaching the U20 in the World Cup that is just beginning. However, the Dutch are in a tough group with Japan (game tomorrow), the United States and Ghana. You'd have to think that the U20 team's performance will influence whether Torny is offered the job or not.
     
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  15. desinho

    desinho Member

    Liverpool FC
    Spain
    Aug 7, 2007
    Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #190 desinho, Aug 10, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
    She withdrew her name after they came up with the 'Sarina 2.0/ Sarina+' profile which she didn't see herself as. Don't think she would turn down an offer if it came but also wonder if she is strict enough to control the mouthy ones in the squad ...

    Funnily enough much was made about a Roord interview on Parsons yet in another interview in a magazine her biggest criticism was about Wiegman and that she didn't refresh the squad soon enough (and she was not really a fan of Wiegman and actually liked it under Parsons)

    Also van de Donk's main point was that they adapted to the opponents too much instead of playing to their own strengths ('the Dutch way') ...
     
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  16. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    #191 Ethan Frank, Aug 10, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
    It had to happen, but honestly, I'm not really on the players' side right now. Do fans not remember how the 2019 WWC and qualifying beforehand went? Two 90+ minute winners (one vs Slovakia), a draw vs Ireland, and a loss to Norway (before pretty comfortably going through the playoffs) isn't really any different from the two draws vs the Czech Republic. Then, at the 2019 WWC, I don't think any Dutch attacker had a good tournament. I wonder if the Olympics where Miedema was beyond good made some people forget about offensive issues under Wiegman. [I also liked a lot of Groenen's offensive/buildup game from the 6 position/role (while still being largely good at her defensive responsibilities), but that was of course an enforced change and not a tactical decision from Wiegman.] Parsons' farewell post was classy in my opinion, and he was very well-liked by players at Portland despite some fans saying he didn't do all that well there either. Again, I think a lot of the comments I've seen about Parsons are not warranted at all and just scapegoating.
     
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  17. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    Well, if Spitse hadn't gotten injured before the Olympics, I'm not sure how much Roord would have played; on the flip side, Parsons clearly valued what she brings to the team. (I do think her introduction vs France was definitely a positive, but I still can't figure out what she was doing just standing outside the box in essentially the same spot for several seconds around the hour mark. If she had been on the move and right on top of or behind Bilbault, I seriously think she could have gotten a high quality chance at goal.)

    Interestingly enough, L'orange made pretty much the same point regarding Wiegman's approach vs the US in 2019.
     
  18. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    Dutch players are back with their teams, Swedish players (who of course stayed longer at the Euros) are back with their teams, and City players are back (although I guess they do have UWCL qualifying matches). Like last summer, Groenen's really taking her time getting back to United, who have had a good/great transfer window even with some unpopular signings in Parris/Williams/Leon (one/two is fine but all three of them?). Surely, she won't miss the two big preseason matches vs PSG and Barcelona/Bayern, right?
     
  19. Philipp Morgenstern

    Manchester United
    Australia
    Oct 30, 2021
    Does Iceland have the ability to cause an upset though?
     
  20. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    In a single elimination match, almost any team is capable of causing an upset. Dutch only need a draw so the odds are in their favor.
     
  21. Bauser

    Bauser Member+

    Dec 23, 2000
    Norway
    Club:
    Fredrikstad FK
    The Dutch will most likely need a win. Iceland have a game in hand and will play Belarus in Reykjavik a few days before, which very likely might see them go top of the table before the match in Utrecht.
     
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  22. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Why is Brugts not on the U20 squad for the World Cup that's just started? You'd think they'd absolutely want her to get the excellent experience that comes with a WC competition. I don't get it. Fatique from being on the Senior Euro squad, though she played very little? Same for Tromp: I read she's not in Costa Rica because Ajax wants her for CL qualifiers. So the team can tell the KNVB--sorry, but we don't want her taking part in the U20 World Cup? The Dutch are not being forward-thinking here.
     
  23. Klingo3034

    Klingo3034 Member+

    Dallas FC
    United States
    Oct 11, 2019
    Gotham FC coaching job is open. And closer to home.
     
  24. Klingo3034

    Klingo3034 Member+

    Dallas FC
    United States
    Oct 11, 2019
    If she’s playing for the senior squad, doesn’t really make sense to bring her to play U20. It be like bringing in Trinity Rodman to play there even though she is in the senior squad.
     
  25. Bauser

    Bauser Member+

    Dec 23, 2000
    Norway
    Club:
    Fredrikstad FK
    It's very understandable if the Dutch FA are making UWCL the number one priority instead of a youth tournament this autumn. The Netherlands didn't get any clubs into the UWCL group stage last season, and for the sake of the competitiveness and attractiveness of the domestic football, it's very important to have teams qualify as often as possible and to gain automatic group stage spots in the future. I can't see what's forward-thinking about sending players good enough to fight for starting spots in the senior European championships to a far lower quality U20 WC.
     

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