The Philadelphia Union Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by ussoccer97531, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Union have a Organizational Structure. There's real competition for places at every position. I'm fortunate to have a front row seat to them.
    One of the first players to congratulate M'Baizo last night was Harriel. As the players were going into the tunnel at halftime, all of the young players were mobbing McGlynn. They have a team ethos and culture that is rare in Pro Sports.

    This team, and the young players, are only getting better. The Union haven't hit their best form yet. They're just now starting to gel in the final third. Their team defending is ridiculous. Literally all 10 field players defend.

    Last week Orlando had ZERO ideas or answers on how to break down their defense, and created no chances. 3 days later Orlando puts 5 past Red Bulls. Last night Houston didn't threaten until Philly took their foot off of the gas at the 60' mark. Philly as a team are on pace to have the best all time defense in MLS history.

    You're spot on about Houston. I don't think they're necessarily bad, but they're not good either. They have a lot of good players. Herrera is one of the best players in Concacaf. There's a lot of work to be done in Space City that's for sure. It's going to take time, and the Western Conference is unforgiving unfortunately.

    Prior to late 2015 when Earnie Stewart was named Sporting Director of the Union, Philly was just a directionless mediocre MLS team. He put in the framework that started the Union on their current path. Ernst Tanner picked up that ball and built upon and improved the model and framework. They're able to play their kids, and more importantly they're able to put them in positions to succeed and grow. They provide a challenging training environment that enables all of their players to improve and grow. That's the key. It's not about just playing kids. Young players need a path of progression.

    Very quietly, NYCFC is doing/building the same thing.....which should scare the rest of the league. Miami has been forced to do this too, though we'll have to see if they continue once the sanctions have expired. If the LA teams can figure this out......
     
  2. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    They should jettison the players in the positions of Sullivan and Aaronson also. There’s a ceiling with MLS players. Those kids would quickly prove to be better than the experienced MLS’ers. Teams always seem to be reluctant to do this, and when they eventually do the reaction is almost never that the talented young academy player didn’t get the job done.
     
  3. JUnionFan

    JUnionFan Member+

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Sep 30, 2020
    I'm usually fully on the side of youth but Gazdag has 11G/5A this season, no reasonable team is going to jettison that.

    I'd say Aaronson already is the clear backup 10, the bigger issue is more that Curtin is still slow to sub - Gazdag (and Bedoya for that matter) should be subbed off at 60' instead of 77' in games like these.

    Sullivan is trickier, I don't think he has a clear position yet in the first team, and is behind McGlynn in the 8 depth chart and Aaronson in the 10 depth chart. Sometimes things just don't line up when it comes to the youth you have and the first team situation. All things considered I think the Union is trending in the right direction when it comes to their HGs this year though.
     
  4. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Would you take Brenden Aaronson or Gazdag? A lot of people like to compare Brenden and Paxten. Some say Paxten is better. If Paxten by this time next year is the level Brenden was at when he was sold, was it worth it? Not only will they get a better player than Gazdag, but they’ll also get 20M when he’s sold. The flip side is he continues to start 6 games a season and is sold for 5M after he was disgruntled because he hasn’t been playing starting minutes.

    There are absolutely trade offs. I’m not suggesting Gazdag, Uhre, and Carranza are bad players, but there’s a ceiling with them. There’s a reason these guys are in MLS right now and not exactly among the best players in MLS. It’s possible there could be a short-term drop in results by integrating these kids permanently. It’s also possible the other two do what McGlynn has.

    Teams have to make tough decisions. The excuses ring hollow at some point, and they either get starting minutes or look to leave. It’s a lot harder to criticize when a team is successful, so I have bigger problems right now with clubs like Seattle and LAG, but we do like to hold this club to a higher standard. This is the same discussions that were had a few years ago about FC Dallas.
     
  5. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Seems pretty clear to me that the people in Philly are much, much, much, much, much, much smarter than anyone here.

    Then again, playing make believe on the net, with no real world repercussions to worry about, is where true genius always exists!
     
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  6. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Oh yeah. I’m being a wise ass because we had entered absurd territory.

    Anyone in sport or business who has run anything would laugh hysterically at this point.
     
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  7. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What exactly is that ceiling??? This trio leads the league in goals scored with 27, all with 8 or more....



    I really wish folks would take the time to do a little research before posting nonsense.....

    Gazdag has scored more goals and contributed more assists in fewer games than Brenden Aaronson did for Philly.

    Also, their U20 players have been integrated permanently. They've been fixtures on the first team for nearly two whole seasons now. They've been given playing time that they've earned. They've also been put into positions to be successful. That's a huge part of player development.....earning minutes by competing against players day in and day out in training.. Isn't that why US Nat fans want the players to go to Europe in the first place???

    What excuses are you talking about? The fact that playing time is earned not given? That fact that coaches are paid to WIN games and trophies???


    This Bullshit narrative that players should be handed minutes and starting roles simply because it could benefit the national team is not based in reality. It's also a fast way to get coaches and executives fired. After all Professional Sports is a results based business....
     
  8. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I would think that one reason teams are reluctant to get rid of vets to make room for promising youth is the temporary nature of their stay in MLS. Aaronson and Sullivan could easily be in Europe next year...or even this year. At some point, if the youth players are good enough and especially if there are younger players in place for the next year, it definitely makes sense to get rid of the vet but it's not a choice that comes without risk.
     
  9. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I also am a firm believer that regular playing time is FAR more important than whether or not a young player starts. I believe that a young player that earns a regular starting position and racks up big minutes can sometimes have his career hurt in the long term due to the toll it takes on his developing body. Young players need more time for recuperation while their bodies are developing. If a young player is getting 15-30 minutes per game, I believe that is a great plan for development. As he improves, starting regularly and getting 45-60 min per game is probably a perfect compromise between minutes and rest while still increasing the importance of the player's role in the team.
     
  10. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bingo, great points. Given how the Union play, having the engine to play in the midfield for them is a necessity. It takes time for young players who are still developing physically to gain that engine and stamina.
     
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  11. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #661 ussoccer97531, Jul 31, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2022
    I said if Paxten is better at the same time as a player who was best XI in the league then he will be better than Gazdag. Gazdag is not a best XI caliber player in the league.

    I don’t know where this idea comes from that young players can only replace bad players. Maybe these kids would do as well as the starters, which I didn’t suggest are bad players. That was the whole point. If McGlynn does this in three starts, why not give the other two the same chance? I don’t know why we shouldn’t believe they’d similarly impress. The last extended game time they got they were piling up big attacking numbers.

    Are they worse, as good, or better? Until they get games, we won’t know. I suspect the club has three additional starter caliber players that are 16th, 17th, and 18th in minutes. At the beginning of the season I said two of them should be top 11 in minutes and the third should be 12th. I thought that was a very realistic expectation. I didn’t think playing no more than last season or even less was a fair expectation.

    The excuses I reference are that there has to cease being reasons to not give them a run of games at some point. These players ahead of them are not Mbappe, Messi, and Neymar. They are good MLS players, but likely little more. If the club wants to see these kids be key players for the club, they have to get their opportunity at some point. They aren’t sticking around until they’re 25 to wait their turn behind a bunch of players the average football fan around the world has never heard of.

    I didn’t claim they should be handed anything. If I thought players should be handed something, I’d advocate to play Sorenson. I haven’t even said we need to see Craig play regularly. CB’s usually need more time. I think playing less or no more than last season is probably pretty bad for a player’s development and they either are regressing or the club isn’t holding up their end of development. IMO it’s the latter.
     
  12. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    That’s a good point, but if they claim to be a development club and want to generate the types of fees for these players that Pepi and Slonina generated then that’s what it takes.

    There are hard decisions to make. They may decide they would rather go with the players they have, but they also shouldn’t be surprised or mad if the players leave before they play key roles or don’t generate big fees for them.
     
  13. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    Gazdag is absolutely in the running for MLS Best XI this season
     
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  14. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
  15. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    That must be a loose definition then. He’s 7th in goals and not too high in assists.
     
  16. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    11 goals and 5 assists for the East leading and current second best team in the league. Hany Mukhtar is a candidate and he has 12G/6A....
     
  17. no exit

    no exit Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Nov 20, 2019
    Gazdag's in the 85th percentile in xG+xA and pressures like a demon. He's way better than Brenden Aaronson was when he left MLS.* At any rate, seems a bit much to expect a Supporters' Shield contender to overhaul its own team to get some kids on the field -- like it or don't, MLS is a meaningful league and you do play to win the game.

    There's also little evidence P. Aaronson is better than B. Aaronson, at least for the moment. I do take some of the coaches'/players' dicta on the subject seriously, but as we know they're as prone to hype, foggy memories, white lies, and all the rest as the rest of us humans are. Fortunately we have some data to help us also.

    Paxten right now is at 45th percentile xG+xA, which is pretty solid for a young guy, but we have to discount that a bit given that he comes off the bench as a sub a lot. It's easier to be the fresh legs of the bench than be the starter. Like Brenden, he presses the hell out of opponents. He also offers basically zippo in progressing the ball at his feet. (He's good at receiving the ball.)

    Brenden was basically the same player xG+xA, but passed more frequently (and also progressed the ball more). He also was a teench better as a presser. I think statistically you'd have to favor Brenden above Paxten, though it's such a small sample size with Paxten there's still time for him to make up difference. At any rate it's hard to fault Jim Curtin, who might be the best in the MLS business at simultaneously developing players and winning.

    *(Obviously B. Aaronson is a really good player now. But there's no way he was a best XI player when he left MLS, whatever the voting said. He was an average attacking player with a lot of defensive quality. That makes for a useful player overall, and certainly an attractive proposition from a transfer perspective. But we shouldn't confuse Aaronson's off-the-charts ability to improve his game for superlative quality at each point along his development.)
     
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  18. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    There are no reasons to get rid of players that are the best at their positions in the league while you're dominating and winning games trying to win the championship. Why is that so hard to understand.
     
  19. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    There is something to be said on the obvious ascension of an exciting talent of an 18-19 yr old we know will get better and a 25 yr old who may be just as good at a moment in time during the past with the knowledge he won't improve much.
     
  20. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    I think everyone on that team and organization know the priority is to win the championship and not the valuation of any single player. Can we all just agree that the increase in Revenue and Value to the team winning the championship dwarfs any possible future transfer fee for Paxton Aaronson.
    It pales in comparison, and doing things the right way takes care of all your concerns anyway.
     
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  21. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's say they win shield or MLS cup this year. Or otherwise make CCL. They will have just as much or better opportunity to showcase the youngsters. Ajax is a 'development club' but they have prestige that come with winning championships too.
     
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  22. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
  23. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would think Tanner is doing such a good job Philly better start looking for his replacement as some big clubs around the world have to be interested. Just the way it works. They did a good job finding him to replace Stewart (who now is looking pretty good as starting Philly's rise and now the men's side looking good at full team and U20) so probably have prepared for a replacement.
     
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  24. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Union & Tanner agreed to a multi-year Contract extension last July. That said, one would have to imagine that Philly is always on the lookout for potential replacements at every position in the FO, coaching and support staff and playing side. It's the nature of the business. The days of an Arsene Wenger or Sir Alex staying at one club for 20+ years are the exception.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/phil...ctor-ernst-tanner-agree-to-contract-extension
     
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  25. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    Well, let’s face it, Tanner really could be doing so much better than he is. His priorities aren’t great as we know.
    Maybe someone from here could apply and interview for the job.
     

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