Pre-match: September Camp Roster Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by gomichigan24, Jul 9, 2022.

  1. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    I feel like Pepi has a pretty high floor at this point for the USMNT. We know that he's willing and able to put in the running Berhalter wants of his forwards, and we know that he knows how Berhalter wants to play. That's more than can be said for Vazquez, Dike, or Pefok right now--we just don't know at all about the former and have decent evidence that the latter two can't do the running.

    I do wonder if Vazquez might be a better version of Pepi right now--similar in style but stronger, better holdup play, and more confident in his finishing. But it would be a gamble to give a spot to Vazquez even in September as he could just not be up to the USMNT level, and you've wasted those precious minutes.
     
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  2. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Regarding Miazga:

    He was better in MLS as a 20 year old than anything Aaron Long has every done in the league.

    He was better in the Championship than CCV

    He was better in France than EPB has been.

    Better in the Netherlands and Belgium than McKenzie.

    Now, that said, he's a head-case prone to an occasional inexplicable back pass, a red card suspension for a nut sack crack, and then he'll get in the manager's doghouse for attitude issues unknown. He might not be worth it.

    Alavas obviously tuned out a bad choice, and not a great year, though when he played, he still did O.K. in La Liga.

    I don't know if he can get back in at this point, because the issues might outweigh the superior performances. But, if he can land in the right spot, he can jump any of those guys in my mind, because he's already been that guy only a year ago. I doubt Berhalter sees it my way though.
     
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  3. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    the attitude problem never crops up with Nats.

    Miazga is an "eat your peas" type of guy. He does his job. He likes to be appreciated (vide his turn in Eredvisie which was his best).
     
  4. JUnionFan

    JUnionFan Member+

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Sep 30, 2020
    The entire reason McKenzie jumped Miazga in the pre NL camp last year and got all those starts was specifically because McKenzie was outplaying him in Belgium. McKenzie had like 2 straight team of the week appearances, while Miazga was not playing that well (he may have had one of his explicitly mistakes during that timeframe as well, i don't remember).

    Of course since then its gone downhill for both of them.
     
  5. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Vazquez is a good presser so I’m not worried about him being willing or able to do the running.
     
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  6. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Simple question.

    How do you bring 5 #9s to a short camp with only 2 matches and get a good look at all of them? Especaily when one of the primary stated focuses (which I agree with) is that these matches need to be used to give the team some solid minutes playing together.
     
  7. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is indeed a problem and I don’t think we’ll see more than 3 in September with Ferreira being the only lock.
     
  8. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pepi fits the system better but he's gotta score. He can get over say Wright and Dike because he's in a better league but if Pefok is the same league and scoring goals...Egg will have to make adjustments to his system to playbto Pefok's strengths.
     
  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    You don't.

    One way you would force it would be to bring a bunch of guys to camp and then the underperformers don't play in games.

    But I think we're past the stage where the players would appreciate that. It also seems somewhat rigged given the level of exposure, etc.

    I think you could invite someone like Vazquez under the premise that you likely won't see a game, but we'd love to get you in camp, etc., and see what happens.

    But there are challenges there clearly from a time and man management.
     
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  10. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The question for Pefok, Brooks and Ream are does it make sense to take an experienced perhaps better player that changes the way the whole team has to setup to play and even if they are better than the alternative the team itself is worse? The team is mostly young players who are set up to press and break when they get steals. Pefok isn't ideal for that and in Switzerland played for the best team that dominated others. The US won't be doing that at the WC. He might be the guy to bring off the bench when throwing the kitchen sink at the other team for a late goal. Defensively if the press is broken the defenders have to do a lot of defending in space or be able to read and attack balls before they become a problem. Ream and Brooks are better on a team that sits back and counters. Brooks hits beautiful switching passes to the right back or winger but styles didn't mesh with the pressing crew being used now. Ream would be much the same and both are slow a foot as Ream showed against the Mexican WunderKid (the only time I've ever seen him succeed) and Brooks had issues in several games. Vasquez might actually be a good fit but has very little time to prove it. If he gets called up it's because his club form will have convinced the coaching staff it will translate.
     
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  11. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, it's tough and at least one player won't likely get on the field. But, the striker situation looks pretty shaky right now--if ever there was a time to bend the rules a bit and bring in more players, now is it. Of course, there's still around 6 weeks until the September roster needs to be set, so the players may sort themselves out in the mean time anyway.
     
  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think it's a question of if you look at the pool ... is someone actually likely to be a material upgrade.

    Because the cost is improving the play with what you've chosen. The upside is if one of these players is an improvement.

    But that's the judgement call. I think the default is often it doesn't hurt to try, but it really all comes down to how likely you think someone like Vazquez is actually an upgrade, and how likely you think you are right about that.

    I'm intrigued by him. Let's be honest, chances are he's not a material upgrade. For all his stats, he's not really outperforming Jesus in MLS. They are both doing extremely well. It's like with Wright -- what were the chances he was going to come in and blow us away? Not great. Perhaps worth it, but it was never a big chance. You could see that from his club play.

    What I like about Vazquez is what he does, personally. Since I doubt he's going to come in and simply seize the job, the fact that he can press, that he can bring an aerial threat, that he can bang, and that he's at least decent in hold-up play makes him more attractive than Wright simply because even if he doesn't star, he still brings something.
     
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  13. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I would like a couple more friendlies with Grenada scheduled and Wright and Vazquez be given those starts so we can have a good comp with Ferreira.
     
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  14. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I think we've struggled to get players on the field together through injuries and really need to focus on players working together. I can understand the desire to call in a bunch of strikers simply because after 4 years, no one has stepped up and made the position their own and Berhalter has not made a firm call as to who he wants to play up top and given hem extended minutes. We've mixed and matched for years with no solution clearly presenting itself and now we're on the home stretch and lacking a recognized leading striker. It's a difficult position to be in, but I don't honestly think it is solved by calling in someone at the last minute and hoping they somehow all of a sudden are a clear improvement over other options. We just have a lot of mediocre players up top and that's not going to change. I'm not going to be upset if Berhalter really wants to get a look at a guy in hopes he will somehow make it all better up top, but I think we're just as well off calling in whoever Berhalter considers his top 3 or maybe 4 options and seeing who fits best mostly because I just don't see that truly special player suddenly emerging.
     
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  15. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But, let's be honest. Does anyone think Wright got a fair shake? He got the tougher games and Ferreira got the easier ones.
    When GB was asked how he did, he said "It was bad luck that he didn't get to show us more". Bad luck? he assigned the games!

    I think GB has his mind set that Ferreira is his guy. We shall see if that was the "Wright" one.
     
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  16. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Ferreira is not a bad player. But he is a mediocrity similar to Wright, Pefok, Vazquez, etc. These guys all have a chance to improve over the next few years but atm they are mediocrities. It is what it is. The best solution imo is none of the above. Play Pulisic or Reyna as a false 9. Work Weah into the lineup as a wide attacking player. It seems pretty obvious to me this is the way to go.
     
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  17. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What would be ideal but will never happen is if we pulled a Mexico and scheduled a friendly in August outside the international window. The idea being it could serve as a pre-camp to get a look at someone like Vazquez to figure out if he should be called in September.

    MLS would never go for it though.
     
  18. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't care who you are playing against when you don't hustle. Wright was given a shot and stood around like he was waiting for the game to come to him instead of working hard to do something.

    Using the opponent as an excuse to poor effort is a non starter in my book.
     
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  19. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I agree with this completely but I think the odds of this happening are slim to none. Berhalter is rolling with a traditional 9 whether we have one up to snuff or not. If we're not going to change anything structurally or play a false 9, none of the current options are clearly ahead of any others, all a big blob of OK but nothing special and not likely to scare anyone at a World Cup.
     
  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think he was most likely fairly and accurately evaluated.

    Wright played in a nearly month long camp and he got game time against Morocco, Uruguay and El Salvador. He also has a significant amount of gametape in club play that is easily viewed and evaluated.

    I can see your point of view if your view of evaluation is matching up goals solely in game time, but I don't think the coaching staff is making any determination that way.

    What did I see of Wright?
    • He makes good runs in behind, but he does not have breakaway speed
    • He has good size, but doesn't really go up strong in aerial situations or muscle World-Cup level players effectively. Free headers seem good; contested not so much and so hold-up play is not great.
    • He does not have a high work rate, and he doesn't know how to press yet (though he improved at camp). His angles are really not good.
    • He's reasonably skilled, but his effectiveness in the build up is somewhat blunted by the work rate. Still, he can come back and help out effectively as a striker -- more Sargent-style than false 9. Not at the level of Jozy but you could see him getting there.
    • His shot is mostly power over placement. He's been effective at club unpressured, but there's no reason to believe he's some kind of outlier good or bad on finishing.
    • He's not overly effective in a crowded box or against a set defense.
    I'm sure Berhalter and staff, who are both pros, have watched all his games, watch him in camp, talk to his coach, has a better grasp than me, but that's what I see across a number of things.

    All that was pretty much backed up by his play. It's better that he got the harder games. People seem to think Ferreira's play against Grenada won him points with the staff; I think it was just nice for his confidence but we already knew he could roast Grenada. A good performance against Grenada would have also been pretty meaningless for Wright.

    When I look at that scouting report, I don't see a bad player. But for sure, I don't see a player that is clearly in a rung above the other options. He's not Musah or Reyna, popping off the screen in 10 minutes. He had one really nice pass, a bunch of nice runs, a very saveable pen, a missed one on one, but moreover, but was not an impact player.

    Someone who is really clamoring for Wright may point out that much of my criticism may also apply to Ferreira, and they'd be right. There's no objective measure between them. I put them on the same general level, but if I had to parse, I'd parse for Jesus. He's far more active, he presses well, he combines very well with our top talent, and I don't necessarily think his small sample means a bad finisher.

    My point is: I'm confident that Wright is not materially better than Ferreira as of today. I'm not confident Ferreira is materially better than Wright, but I am certain our team works better on offense and defense right now with him.

    So what do you do? Do you bet on Wright to improve? Ferreira is younger. He's not as physically toolsy, but he probably has more projection.

    For me, I'm fine with the Ferreira > Wright decision and am more interested in looking at guys who may be better than Ferreira or complement him. For me, that's Pepi, Dike, and Vazquez.

    If others fail, I still think you could call in Wright and Pefok in November.
     
  21. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ferreira did not have a good game vs Uruguay either. But I don't see GB criticizing him.
     
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  22. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes but you are equating having a bad game with the same as showing little to no effort. Way different IMO.
     
  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Are we evaluating players or are we making sure there's a tit for tat in public comments?

    It was after the El Salvador game, btw, and he was asked about Haji. He responded. It wasn't even that harsh, and he was specific that while he had a bad game, he wasn't excluded.

    But who cares?
     
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  24. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we'll see Ferreira, Pepi, Dike, Pefok, Haji, and Vasquez in camp. 3 or 4 will make the Qatar roster, 1 or 2 will be alternates, and 1 or 2 will say goodbye.
     
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  25. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I asked previously (#231) how we could call in 5 guys to a short camp with only 2 matches and get a good run out doing that. And now you think we bring 6. Holy hell how do you make that work?

    There are only so many reps to go around. Not sure you can structure sound training and only 2 matches (again that one of the primary stated needs is to get the team minutes together....this is the LAST chance before the real deal) with 6 guys who play a single position.
     
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