WEURO 2022 - QF1 England vs Spain

Discussion in 'Women's International' started by Lohmann, Jul 18, 2022.

  1. Essex

    Essex Member

    Jul 5, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Wiegman does it again! Kicking a superior opponent that played much better football out of the tournament, just like against Japan in WC2019.

    But credit to England who managed to come back after being played out of the park for much of the game and being 0:1 behind.

    The question would be, have they passed their biggest challenge of the tournament? I can't imagine any of the other remaining teams dominating England like Spain did. But we will see.
     
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  2. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Actually, you are partially correct that "most head injuries do not come from heading the ball."
    A substantial percentage of concussions in soccer/football (sorry, I have to use those terms, since CTE and concussions are so prevalent in American pointyball) come from heading the ball.
    "Heading accounts for nearly one third of concussions in youth soccer."*

    So, yes, what you stated is mostly true, but that is not what I am describing.

    The studies that are being done currently regarding CTE and concussions look at the long term cumulative effect of heading the ball.
    These are not always "head injuries" per se, although individual head injuries can have definite long term effect.

    It is long term head contact with the ball, day in and day out, for years or decades on end, that is the likely cause of CTE. It is not a traumatic, but a cumulative, illness.
    We are seeing this in NFL players. It is not the "serious" collision that causes the CTE. It is the thousands of small smacks to the skull, as helmets collide on virtually every play.
    Same thing in boxing. While there are serious injuries in boxing of course, it is the tens of thousands of individual punches that cause the injury.

    The theory is that the same is happening in football/soccer, especially with youth, since their brains are still developing. The repeated "mini" trauma of heading the ball can become a long term problem.
    It is why there are limited contact peewee American football and amateur boxers generally wear headgear.

    Look into the work of Dr. Christopher Nowinski at the Concussion Legacy Foundation.

    https://concussionfoundation.org/

    *https://concussionfoundation.org/programs/safer-soccer
     
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  3. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    They have an unusually long recovery period - six days - so that will help them in this regard.
     
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  4. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    Still, do you really need to step that much to your left for a pass out wide?
     
  5. datschge

    datschge Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    Germany
    As mentioned before Spain had been crucially handicapped by losing their most dangerous sources for goal. Since goals is what always wins games in the end I'd like to give some stats that show Spain's decisive weakness at this Euro, chance conversion:

    Spain - Finland
    Shots on goal: 13 - 2
    Goals: 4 (31%) - 1 (50%)

    Germany - Spain
    Shots on goal: 2 - 2
    Goals: 2 (100%) - 0 (0%)

    Denmark - Spain
    Shots on goal: 2 - 5
    Goals: 0 (0%) - 1 (20%)

    England - Spain
    Shots on goal: 3 - 4
    Goals: 2 (67%) - 1 (25%)

    If Spain can fix this, by getting Hermoso (32) and Putellas (28) back but even more important finding equally effective younger players, they will be a force to be reckoned with.
     
  6. Juanele

    Juanele Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    Colorado, US
    Putellas also created quite a few chances, so our attacks on goal will go up.

    Also think we need a new goalkeeper
     
  7. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    A long gap between important matches is usually good for teams but it can be bad in that it can take weeks to emotionally overcome the draining effects of a hard difficult match. That is 6 days might be just long enough to allow minds to relax but not long enough to allow them to rejuvenate.

    Of course 6 days should be plenty for pros to recover but you never know until matches get played.
     
  8. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    I hate that the better team did not win.

    With Putellas, Spain curbstomps England.

    Without her, well, Spain forgetting to maintain numerical superiority in their own area is why the inferior team advanced. Especially against an opponent with greater size and physicality.


    All this aside, this tournament has shown us that if the US women don't take club soccer more seriously, they'll fall behind the rest of the world.
     
  9. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Spain doesn't score enough goals, with or without Putellas, to curbstomp a strong opponent. And while World Cups will be more competitive going forward, which is a good thing, the U.S. will continue to be very formidable. There is a big player pool in the U.S., and a lot of good players.
     
  10. Juanele

    Juanele Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    Colorado, US
    The US will be just fine. Athletically they are far ahead of everyone. The one "weakness" that I've seen from them is their center midfield play but then their style of play generally doesn't go through the center midfield.
     
  11. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    England aren't really "a strong opponent," IMO. And, i think we're underestimating her importance to Spain. For 80 minutes, Spain had the game well in hand, without their best player.


    At the same time, what this Euro is showing is that club soccer has accelerated the development of national teams across Europe. Back home in 'Mericuh, the US women still view club soccer as nothing more than an annoyance.

    The US will continue to dominate CONCACAF minnows, especially if qualifying remains a mere home tournament for them. But across the Atlantic, this tournament is showing that club soccer is growing a wider range of foes than the US women have ever faced.
     
  12. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Sure, when they're playing 3rd world CONCACAF minnows, at home.

    But in a growing game, i believe UEFA will have a number of foes that can overtake them.
     
  13. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Ah, please. Sure Concacaf is full of minnows--but what's that have to do with the U.S. winning the last World Cup? I said that the U.S. would find the going a lot more competitive--and indeed, that's already been the case. Spain played them very tough in the last WC, Sweden beat the U.S. in the Olympics and The Netherlands should have beaten the U.S. as well. So, yea, UEFA is coming on strong. But, as I said, the U.S. will remain quite formidable.
     
  14. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    In the U.S., a big part of the women's game is collegiate soccer--and I for one love that about the U.S. system. Not everyone does: there are those who think the women should go the pro-club route prevalent in the rest of the world, and no doubt there are advantages to players who start serious training as teens in a pro-club development environment. But such players don't get educated, and I happen to like educated athletes. Look at men's pro soccer--all the players are very talented and almost none of them are educated. They're street kids, many of them. The same is true for most of the fans--which is why there's been so much hooliganism in Europe and South America. Nearly all of the U.S. women's NT played in and graduated from college. I think there are now three players on the squad who skipped college. In any case, this is supposed to be about the England--Spain match, not the U.S.
     
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  15. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    That, or something like it, has been said since 1991 (or maybe even before) and every time the US seems to weaken the rest of the world weakens with them and then the US rears back up on their hind legs and claws the eyes out of every opponent for a while.

    I really wish that someone really would humble us a bit but it just has not happened for any extended period of time.

    Maybe it is our huge talent pool, I know that is part of it, or maybe it is that we train overall better female athletes or maybe it is just dumb luck. For whatever reason the whole world of women's soccer always seems to lag the US just a bit.

    I really thought that the Germans or Norwegians would build a power game to match the US or China would use their population base and natural discipline to dethrone the US. I even still see some hope out of France or Sweden. But it has been shown that, for now, the US is the team to beat in every World Cup and Olympics. I do not think any two (or maybe even three) countries could combine and overtake the US and hold that position.

    Yes, the US is very beatable in most situations and I see some real weaknesses in every team the US has ever fielded. It is just that no one "style" is going overtake the US. It will take a team that is dynamic and changes styles when needed to keep pressure on the US to actually improve.

    Right now I think the only team in the world that might catch the US and keep them down in the long run is Australia. They are isolated enough that, maybe, they can come up with something no one has ever seen.
    Another place there could be a major challenge from is Africa. But I just do not see Europe or Asia building a women's program that rivals and consistently beats the US. There are no surprises out of Europe and Asia and it will take surprise to overtake the US and hold that spot.

    Both Africa and Australia are far enough away from the rest of the world to develop something that is both different and better that what the US develops. But that partial isolation will not continue and the huge melting pot that the world has become will make it harder for teams to truly be unique and that means that the US starts from the #1 position and just has to pay attention to what the rest of the world is up to and they will remain #1 most of the time and only fall as low as #3 or #4 once every few years.

    Soccer is not played in a vacuum but it can, to a good extent, develop in a vacuum.

    After a time winning becomes a habit and habits can become instinct. When teams play as good as the US has for as long as the US has the players almost do not have to think to know how to win. And that winning becomes the defining part of the team.

    Somebody, please, get as good as the US and take steps to stay there. Yes the US may well not win the next WWC or the next Olympics or even their next match but they will stay in the top 2 or 3 of the world until somebody somewhere actually develops a program with a true feeder system that rivals what we have in the US.

    Just a brief mention of one thing that helps the US a lot and that is our college system. I really do not like the play of most college programs but it gives players a way to play until they decide to go pro or do something else. The best players, generally, do not go through college but the player base that comes from players being able to delay decisions by playing in college while also maintaining their education is an invaluable asset.

    We can, and I do, criticize the US for playing so many weak "minnows" but it really does not seem to hurt them much or, if it really does make a difference, it does not hurt the US enough to allow the rest of the world to catch up.

    Come on world do something to prove that the US is not really #1. I would like that but I do not see it happening at least until I pass on to that great soccer club in the sky.

    Like the Englishman who died and came back to give a message to his friend Saul. "Saul, the good news is they have soccer in heaven. The bad news is you are playing left wing next Sunday."
     
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  16. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I somehow liked the 19 yo who was subbed-in for Spain in the last part of the game (don't remember her name; she plays, if I remember well, for Real Sociedad). A little rough around the edges, sure, and she killed some attacks, but she also created some half-chances out of nothing: I guess there's a potential there.
     
  17. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    In don't know where you have this one from. E.g. in Germany all Pro club facilities offer and most demand high school education. This is needed so that all the young kids who don't make it to the professional level didn't ruin their lifes trying to. Hence at least most of the German professionals have a pretty good education.
     
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  18. kribi

    kribi Member

    Lyon
    France
    Jan 21, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Feel soooo bad for Spain which missed few minutes to win against the supposedly best team in this euros. Spain struggled before in the strongest group and had one less rest day :(
    For the semi final England will have two more rest days than the Sweden-Belgium match 's winner :(:( Unfair.
    Hope England will not win
     
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  19. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It is the same in the Dutch academies.
     
  20. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
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  21. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    No one's talking about "the LAST world cup."

    The growth in UEFA, via their clubs is all about the NEXT world cup.
     
  22. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    #147 Khan, Jul 21, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2022
    Ok, I had to clear out the wall of text. Be succinct, my friend.


    The entirety of your post boils down this:

    Up to now, Title IX gave the US a head start on other nations. However, this Euro is showing us how their club setups are accelerating their NT's growth.

    Up to now, one or two nations with a standout player (i.e. Brasil/Marta) could be "the one" potential challenger to the US in a tournament.

    Now? UEFA just might have more than "just one" difficult national team, with "just one" standout player. We'll see, but I'm enjoying the tournament more than "that one" match in CONCACAF.

    Up to now, maybe the US had to avoid "that one team" in a tournament. Perhaps in the future, maybe they have to avoid being drawn in a group with(for example):

    Australia, then avoid Brasil in the 2nd round, so that they don't have to face Spain or Sweden in the quarters or semis. This is a very different animal than back in 91.
     
  23. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Meh, they sure act "educated," until they complain about "those foreign guys," or drink and drive, or steal the team bus, or make jackasses of themselves celebrating goals vs minnows that aren't a match for them. We can go on, if you like.


    Sure, "education" might make you feel good about yourself watch athletes, but at the end of the day, they're all really just trained monkeys for our entertainment.

    The club route is the way to go, full stop. Uneducated players can act just as stoopid as so-called "educated" ones.
     
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  24. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The other thing to note is that UEFA club football is now keeping top Euro talent in Europe with a better club season than the women's league in the US. IMO, top club football is far better than what we have in the US (and yes, I've gone to a number of Washington Spirit matches over the years).

    Maybe Jurgen Klinsman's comment when he was men's NT coach should be followed by the US women, "if you want to get better you need to go play in Europe."
     
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  25. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Agreed. There must be a reason why the top European women don't come here to play any more.

    Thats a problem for the league, and for the women's national team going forward.
     

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