Roster 2022

Discussion in 'Houston Dynamo' started by slycat, Nov 11, 2021.

  1. Brian Gilchriest

    Eintracht Frankfurt
    United States
    Oct 3, 2020
    OK, let's talk then. (1) You can be right about this, I'll give it to you, because in a week you'll change your mind.

    (2) The roster isn't good enough. We still need 3 (2 wings, and a starter who can play 90 at the 10.)upgrades to the starting 11, and we need to move on from DQ. We could still upgrade both backs, and we need to move on from Tim Parker. There.
     
  2. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    i posted a list of NT-pool senior or rising age group players the other day. US players due to our slot situation. i do this on a roughly annual basis and they always end up someplace else because we seem to obsess about foreign players and see domestic as MLS, leaving a "holden-size" hole where the many unhappy expat players are. holden jaqua clark ngwenya barrett etc. used to be one whole pipeline into the team. the allocation list is no longer the barrier it used to be because they don't update it much.

    i don't know if we have 3 U22s due to HH's expense as the 3rd DP. "If the third Designated Player is age 24 or older and is above Maximum Targeted Allocation Money Amount ($1,612,500), the club will have one U22 Initiative Slot."
     
  3. Brian Gilchriest

    Eintracht Frankfurt
    United States
    Oct 3, 2020
    We can't afford most of them unless (1) they're willing to come here for the league minimum. (2) We are able move some people.
     
  4. quiznatodd_bidness

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Apr 14, 2020
    We are going to add someone, per Paulo and Pat. The mechanics are still up in the air it seems. Since we haven’t heard anything more about it, it would seem like neither parties have anything to gain from leaking the transfer/trade yet.
     
  5. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #1205 juvechelsea, Jul 17, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
    long term i think the whole roster is garbage except maybe raines. wrong age to build around (clark, HH), too specific a player without the right supporting cast (sebas), inconsistent (hadebe, clark), or not good enough. i use "blow it up" for a reason. DPs and slots are what decides this league and we have too much invested in average players or people who won't win games. we could maybe get around that with HD2/academy/signing NT pool players but we don't do that enough to fix the rest.

    short term, for this season, push adam high, that's one wing quasi-"signing," sign a LB or try pasher back there, trade parker, get us a reliable CB in along hadebe who is at least decent SOME nights, trade quintero who is selfish and doesn't work with sebas, get sebas one more wing and someone less selfish for 10. to clear cap and roster space steres and others might need to go.

    people they sign need to be of a type that harmonizes with sebas and HH.

    for a half season fix they need to "sell out" as either an attacking team or a defend and counter team. if attacking technical players to serve sebas. if defend and counter then speed wide and defenders who mark. part of their problem is they don't seem to focus on fixing or emphasizing either side of ball. most playoff teams are good on offense, or good on defense, or both, not mediocre mush with a neutral GD. our building efforts have been splashed all over the field incoherently. we thus remain good at neither end.

    i think they really thought this was going to go this year hence the no more changes comments earlier. i think they are still in an incremental or bound-up mindset acting like maybe one more change.. i think they are still underestimating what it needs. underestimation is like a running theme. look at our table position, does that feel like one wing away? nope.

    basically, short term, parker and get some attackers who can work with sebas. quintero has decent numbers but they are selfish. he is a 4th forward pretending to be a 10. we need assists to the 9. you need accurate wings and a 10......

    either that or we need to turn this into atletico madrid and you need speed wings and we just defend like hell, have HH feed the wings on the counter, run past teams. elis ball but with a defense.

    everyone signed needs to fit the concept in some role. pick a concept. not this one. sign to it like kinnear used to do. if you want to be atletico madrid they need to be ballwinners or speedy. if you want to be technical look at the assists column and if they hit a brad davis type ball. right now they basically sign some old flame or tape across the transom without regard to if they fit the squad or work with the DPs. i don't get buying sebas then leaving him up there "alone" in terms of personnel efforts. ching had davis.
     
  6. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #1206 juvechelsea, Jul 17, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
    step back from the team we have now, or the statements made by leadership, and think about it on your own. look at the current wings. in half a season no individual wing has more than 1 assist. the 10 has 2 assists. if you get one more wing they might or might not do something but you could expect 3 more assists from the 10 and other wing for the whole rest of the season.

    does that sound right? does that sound like sebas gets much more service? obviously needs to go far further.

    i think adam-as-forward could get you the left side done, an accurate LF who paces out to 10 assists is fine. but then you need a LB.

    i think quintero has a market with numbers like this. i think per usual they are scared of dramatic change. but if this is built around quintero and sebas they don't even seem like they are on a field together, and if sebas is to be kept he will outlast quintero, who might be on his last year.

    they do incrementalism because they are scared of choices or the void. life is a risk. doing nothing is a risk with obvious table implications.
     
  7. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    i actually thought fafa was a good choice to deal. expensive salary, modest production. someone floated that idea whether he wanted it or not.
     
  8. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    i disagree that our laser focus and radio silence approach is wise. i think it's amateurish. i would want to have multiple rumors to bid down price, assess fan interest, receive network feedback, and perhaps get a sense which candidates are more genuinely passionate. putting all your eggs in one basket empowers them to bid up their services. based on thiago, etc. i also question whether this GM can be trusted to focus that much. i would want multiple candidates so maybe someone with cajones in staff or scouting can grab pat and convey if the wrong choice is being targeted, before it's a done deal.
     
  9. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #1209 juvechelsea, Jul 17, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
    send thiago back to brazil. mutual tearup. get back your slot and pro rata salary. dude doesn't even dress. waste of money. the brazilians will not fight you because they can shop another sucker for the fall loan.
     
  10. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Release Thiago, sell or trade Quintero/Fafa, trade Steres/Parker/Baird.

    All due respect dude but the attitude should be line up the deal and we can figure out how to make the room, sitting where we are in the table. And my list wasn't that crazy.
     
  11. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    at back, shaq moore, bryan reynolds, marlon fossey, matt miazga.

    at mid, romain gall, duane holmes, alex mendez, alex mighten,.

    at mid/foward, julian green, richard ledezma.

    at forward, matt hoppe, konrad, tyler boyd, nico gioachinni, andrija novakovich, josh sargent, sebastian soto, haji wright, patrick koffi.

    only some of those would be gold plated.

    a lot of the "stuck" arguments assume way too much continuity on a team way too bad to keep together. if you think this is a one-in one-out window you've drunk the incremental koolaid. we do that -- and i honestly wouldn't be surprised we would be that cheap or anxious and nibble around the edges when aggression is required -- we miss out yet again. the trend line is completely wrong on this team. this is not even close right now. you don't scalpel.
     
  12. Brian Gilchriest

    Eintracht Frankfurt
    United States
    Oct 3, 2020
    I'm sure it's that easy man. You can force these moves down people's throats.

    Nobody is trading for Steres, Quintero of Fafa, their deals are up at the end of the year and they're all over 30.

    Nobody is trading for Parker or Baird, because they're both massively overpaid, and nobody is giving up assets for those two guys plus their contracts.

    We aren't seeing Thiago back. I have no idea what the terms of his loan deal were, but there's a reason they are keeping him on the books.

    This isn't FIFA or FB Manager. I seriously can't believe you think it's as easy as just clicking a button and "poof" these deals are done.
     
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  13. Dynamo_Forever

    Dynamo_Forever Member+

    Aug 9, 2007
    Clear Lake, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not crickets, everyone but @Brian Gilchriest has put you on mute
     
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  14. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
  15. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #1215 juvechelsea, Jul 18, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2022
    i look forward to a few of your "no ones" being proven as wrong as your other predictions. i recall someone on here similarly mocked me and said andrew driver had no trade value right before DC corrected them.

    you can say "never" over and over in this rhetoric but it's not accurate analysis. nice movie speech. this isn't a movie.

    historically we have had plenty of experience getting loaned thiagos taken back. eg koke. we are out our out of pocket -- and that seems to matter more to us these days than it used to -- but he is likely to never see the field here again. maybe not even dress. so you either eat that money and get someone new, or you mope and carry it. you tell him bluntly you have no use for him. this is true. he will then likely accept return to his old team and claim the sort of homesickness sitting a bench in a foreign country causes. you tear up the deal and end the relationship. you forego any right to buy him we were never going to exercise. so what. flamengo will happily take him back as it frees them to loan him to yet another team. his history suggests he is an endless loan asset waiting on another sucker. they will of course keep our loan fee check. the only question is are we dumb enough to let that sunk cost dictate him occupying various roster tools for a year. these days, perhaps, but it is not the only solution.

    contrary to your suggestion, if we handed back thiago i believe there is zero chance flamengo refuses. just like if you send a loan player back to chelsea eg miazga, they just loan miazga someplace else. cash that check too. it's a business. you give me crap about it's a business, well, lending the same thing over and over is good if ethically dubious business. and if i return my rental car to hertz early they aren't going to be all torn up inside about renting it 5 seconds after it's back on the lot, however long my rights nominally lasted.

    quintero has 6 or 7 goals for 6 figure money. you take him for a pro rated half a season -- not a full year -- as a rental, if you need some offense. i can see that being attractive to borderline teams in need of offense. just like austin took urruti. i recall being lectured about how urruti would tail off and then he's still scoring on us and other teams. hmmm

    fafa is more of a stretch on productivity this year, but he had numbers last year, and whoever was pushing that rumor thought someone might be interested either side of the border. that we now seem at last superficially to be pouring water on that smoke doesn't mean there is no possible fire. and with our judgment i sure as heck do not assume their superior intelligence in decisionmaking.

    i am sure people said the same thing about baird at LAFC, etc. i don't think you realize how constrained the player pool gets if one doesn't want to go outside MLS and would like a contract with set terms existing. if you don't get, say, lima the wingback, or one of the good ones, you are in fact left deciding, ok, do i make an offer for dorsey, or valentin, as opposed to run out some scrub from your reserve side. part of the problem here is we became the dumping ground that accepts that junk with high optimism. we got less luck on landing productive players by trade. but the fact we were a sucker suggests other suckers likely exist.

    i also am going to point out i made a long f*cking list of players and i seriously doubt the league response is nunya to the whole list. suggesting otherwise should give up your objectivity card. i realize the game on here is act like i am an idiot but history suggests 80% of the time or so people are saying what i said as other teams sign my suggestions, the season closes, our standings are what they are, and objectivity comes in fashion. the problem is if you only get objective when eliminated, then rapidly lose that pessimism, you get suckered the next time and the next. we need to get right side of the sucker deals. kind of a gross exaggeration to pretend like it's bordering on impossibility no one moves. maybe pat wants to sell that so he is some genius when they do move, irony being then i was right that players x and y had a market, and could be cleared out to improve the side and give it personnel flexibility.

    the fact you are scared to do anything doesn't make me a video game or your passivity appropriate. i just showed 2 of my candidates being signed or rumored as such, to MLS.

    i thought you were mr. clean house too. you're kind of a politician who says things to ward off criticism you don't mean. people come around to my clean house theory, you triangulate that way. people back off in optimism, you get optimistic. i get crap for standing in the same place the whole time saying what i objectively think.
     
  16. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #1216 juvechelsea, Jul 18, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2022
    https://sbisoccer.com/2022/07/mls-t...-atlanta-united-adds-winger-mosquera-and-more

    example of a recent player released by mutual consent, something the dynamo used to routinely do. it is a money loser but clears the slot for whatever. that deal then costs more money. the deal is under AEG we ate our mistakes and now we carry them out of fiscal probity. you can assess which regime finished higher up the table regularly. i am a soccer fan, was told we would expend resources, and see eating mistakes to improve the product as part of resources, which we used to expend.

    the dynamo tend to prefer to sell for peanuts or trade for a bag of used soccer balls. likely to tell the boss "i made some money off of getting rid of him." the more the sport gets about money for assets, the more player exits get defined in those terms. doesn't mean you can't let someone go for free for soccer reasons, and ASAP to clear a spot and get someone new playing soon that can help this summer and fall.

    some sort of face saving excuse is usually given as one does not show up the player who is doing you a favor foregoing their contract rights. koke didn't suck, he was homesick.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/foo...idals-contract-by-mutual-agreement/ar-AAZt3ex
     
  17. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    fossey is a former US U20, was playing wingback for bolton on loan from fulham, and TM value him at $275k.

    gall is a mid, has a US cap this cycle, was halfway dangerous, plays for malmo, $220k.

    mendez is a former US U20 mid playing in portugal with dead ball ability and a cannon shot. $550k last transfer. guatemala NT is chasing him.

    soto is the cheaper of norwich's american loan strikers. he had 2 goals on panama for the senior NT in a friendly. $440k. target striker who will throw his body around for goals.

    ledezma can hit an accurate cross and had 2 assists in that same panama game in his sole senior NT cap. high six figures. just starting to get in first team games for PSV but being left behind by his old U20 teammates eg weah, richards.

    koffi is a young american winger from FCD academy, currently with Paris FC (The Other Paris Team) in Ligue 2. $220k.

    etc. etc.

    now, some are more expensive eg sargent, holmes, miazga, but, are we trying or not. and i think sargent is underrated as a winger.

    cross novakovich off my list as the new american ownership at venezia brought him in.
     
  18. Brian Gilchriest

    Eintracht Frankfurt
    United States
    Oct 3, 2020
    Ok, then let's do this.

    Josh Sargent: Super expensive, completely unproductive at every major level he's ever played, would never want him here, especially with Sebas and Thor already on the roster. Waste of a ton of money.

    Haji Wright: Like him, rumored to be going to either Hull City or Serie A. Would also need a DP slot for another striker. Doesn't work.

    Same goes for every forward on your list. Hoppe's ok, I'd like him, no room for him. Konrad, Gioachini, and Tyler Boyd aren't very good. Striker makes no sense, as we currently have Sebas, Thor, and DQ, also Fafa plays more like a striker than he does a wing. Have to move multiple people to make this work.

    The fact that Julian Green is on this list is pretty funny. Hasn't been productive since he got hurt a few years ago. Played a whopping 1 game last year at Furth. I actually like Ledezma, but we can't afford him without moving someone.

    The only midfielder you have that I'd even consider is Mendez. The other guys are basically what we already have on the roster, and would be a senseless waste of time and money. I actually wouldn't even consider a midfielder right now, with HH here and Raines on the way.

    The back line guys you sent, I like Shaq Moore, he's in Nashville. We couldn't afford him because we haven't been able to move anyone.

    And I'll stop making fun of you for playing video games when you stop treating this like it's a video game.

    I'm fully aware Carlos Salcedo got terminated mutually. He didn't want to be in Canada, wasn't playing well, and would rather be in Mexico. He actually has a habit of doing that, as he forced his way out of Eintracht Frankfurt a few years ago after breaking his ankle. The key term there is Mutually, and besides Parker (who would just join another MLS team and it would be stupid to do), the other guys we need to buy out are up at the end of the year and it would be a completely moronic use of resources to buy them out now.
     
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  19. Dynamo_Forever

    Dynamo_Forever Member+

    Aug 9, 2007
    Clear Lake, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Prepare for the goal posts to be moved....classic Juve
     
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  20. Brian Gilchriest

    Eintracht Frankfurt
    United States
    Oct 3, 2020
    This is actually hilarious, given that Raines has never played a single MLS minute. The ENTIRE rest of the roster is garbage, but that one dude who's never played a minute.....he's money.
     
  21. DonJuego

    DonJuego Member+

    Aug 19, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So was that an open cup game where he played and declined to play defense at the top of the box and prevent a goal?
     
  22. Brian Gilchriest

    Eintracht Frankfurt
    United States
    Oct 3, 2020
    Yes, they aren't playing him in MLS until he acquires enough minutes to qualify as a home grown player through training.
     
  23. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

    Feb 22, 2006
    Houston
    Not to mention that everyone that Juve listed still has European 1st and 2nd division options. What player in their early 20s would throw away their European dreams when they’re already getting top 5 league minutes. The majority of these guys are going down a league level to the Eredivisie or the Jupiler league not MLS to join a team with a manager with 20 pro games under his belt.
     
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  24. Brian Gilchriest

    Eintracht Frankfurt
    United States
    Oct 3, 2020
    Exactly. There are more guys wanting to come here than ever, a lot of them are stating that it's because of the schedule and wanting to stay sharp for the World Cup. However, that's not everyone. I do wish we could have gotten Shaq Moore, I like him and always nab him on FIFA, but then what do we do with Zeca? Where does he fit in? Regardless of the fact we don't have $$$ for him right now.

    Also, and I don't mean disrespect to these guys, but the majority of that list is vastly overrated here. I like Hoppe, but he's never been very productive and his teams tend to get relegated. He hasn't even scored a goal in over a year. Josh Sargent isn't good, he can't score, and he's not even on the NT radar anymore because he played his way out of it.

    The only guy I'd really consider is Haji Wright but he's getting EPL and Serie A looks. He'd take more money than we could afford after the year he had last year, and he wants to play in Europe. I haven't heard any rumblings about him coming here, just England and Italy.

    I like Jonathan Amon too, he's really fast and a left-footed winger. He's not on anybody's radar for a reason, mostly because he can't even get on the field anymore in the Danish Superliga. He's only 22-23, could be worth a look.
     
  25. DonJuego

    DonJuego Member+

    Aug 19, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    TL:DR: So everyone who wants to debate players that the Dynamo should acquire -- have at it. Have your fun. But please don't take it seriously.

    This idea that ANY fan on bigsoccer knows something more or better than any professional scouting operation is delusional. If some great player is not here there is a reason.

    Its not that any particular technical staff is perfect or doesn't make mistakes. It is just that any one of us, me included, would do a spectacularly worse job than Matt Jordan. It is one thing to see that Jordan was in over his head. Its a whole different matter to think you would make better decisions or to evaluate individual decisions -- especially inactions like "why don't we get Messi?" for which we actually have no access to any relevant information.

    Just the fact that we operate almost totally in hindsight invalidates nearly all our evaluation of decisions.

    BTW -- there is nothing in the press that is relevant information. Press and media is its own separate thing detached from reality. Always has been though there are occasional articles and books written about certain teams, moments and people that faithfully convey a particular view of reality. It could be an entire Graduate level college course to explore just how much history is a reflection of the story teller more than the story itself. Then we get to the point that almost all press reports is manipulation by someone.
     

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