The FC Dallas Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by ielag, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Dallas is starting to fall back to the team I thought they'd be.

    When they rotate the squad due to fixture congestion, etc..............................the backups just aren't good enough.

    They're hitting the dog days of summer in Texas, when the games take a lot out of the players. It doesn't look like they have the depth to deal with it.

    In particular, they don't have the quality youth depth to bring off the bench. That's cheap depth for the most part. Redzic did get into the game yesterday. Thomas Roberts was actually in the 18, but didn't play.

    The front office has more work to do.......................
     
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  2. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Not necessarily related, but I still think that Pomykal is miscast as an attacking midfielder. He has one assist and zero goals this season. Meanwhile, he's so good playing deeper, dictating the game from there and breaking up attacks.
     
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  3. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018

    I wouldn't get worried just yet. When they play their best lineup they are pretty good. They may lose some here and there but will stay in the playoff area and near the end of the season will be in the playoffs. From there its all fair game.

    The games in Texas in the summer are plain stupid. I was by the stadium last night and it was 104 on my car temp gauge. You could see by the second half, no one wanted to be out there. They had so much time on the ball because no one had energy to close down in the second half. NYC just packed the box and held on.

    When you start Obrian, Jara, Velasco, Tafari, Munjoma, you can't expect much. Felt like FCD was throwing the game from the start. They will be fine come October. Least that's my take,
     
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  4. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    Looks like Hoffenheim wants to move Che so they are looking for somewhere to loan him out. Maybe he should just come back to Frisco and play in the 105 degree temps this summer. They need CB in a bad way.
     
  5. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #3505 ussoccer97531, Jul 14, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
    Che's last few years is a good case of how misplaced hype can actually negatively impact a career.

    With NTSC in 2020, he didn't do poorly, but there's no rational way that if you are watching a lot of him play for that team (or even before then for the FC Dallas academy) that you are concluding that he's a real elite level prospect. Anyone that watched that FC Dallas '03 age group knew that Pepi and Gomez were far far better than the others. No one even would've bothered to suggest Che was at the same level at the time.

    He got to go to Bayern due to the FC Dallas partnership, which makes sense. Che is a pretty solid prospect and almost all of them that have some potential are sent over there for training. The difference between Che, Pepi, and Sealy when they went there for training was that Che had a German passport. He could actually stay at Bayern and play there. Pepi and Sealy couldn't. We've seen since the gulf between Pepi and Che.

    A lot of people really overestimate the worth of being part of a big European academy compared to developing at home. A team like Bayern Munich doesn't have 15-20 players in their reserve team who are MLS or better level players eventually. They might have 5. That Che was starting wasn't some huge achievement. We knew that he was at that level already from his time domestically.

    This started all this hype. Bayern was supposedly going to purchase him. People wanted to compare him very misguidedly to Chris Richards (who he stylistically isn't similar to and was a significantly worse prospect than) because he had not too long ago been transferred from FC Dallas to Bayern. Berhalter called him up to the USMNT for a training camp because the media took interest in interviewing Che and he says the smart thing that he'll consider playing for Germany. On cue, plenty of people freak out that we might lose a player who is on loan at Bayern Munich to Germany. Before you know it, Che's in a USMNT camp.

    He goes back to FC Dallas after his loan stint at Bayern. He gets good minutes there, but he struggles. He wasn't really an MLS starting caliber player, but the hype probably bought him some minutes other players wouldn't get. Thats good for his development, but he clearly wasn't ready to go play in the Bundesliga after that.

    Hoffenheim is known as a pretty smart club, but even they don't always know what they are doing. They bring in this American kid with ties to area, who had a spell at Bayern and Bayern had interest in, and who is getting talked about a lot. They didn't pay anything for him yet though. Only a loan. If he didn't make the grade, he wouldn't be purchased. They knew it was a punt and structured it as such. There's no real extra incentive they have to use him, if he can't help them.

    Thats why he's now here. He's played how many minutes of football in 2022? He could've been getting minutes for FC Dallas this year. Maybe he wouldn't have even been a starter. If you look at his 2021 season, you'd see it wasn't a given, but they'd help him improve and he'd develop. He could improve at his own pace, and if he only moved to Europe at age 20-21, that wouldn't be so bad.

    Instead, the hype machine got him. I don't blame the kid. You strike when you can. He probably had all types of agents and people around him telling him he's better than he is. I'm clearly not suggesting his career is over. He has plenty of time to go and he's an above-average prospect that has USMNT potential, but this is a clear example where the hype machine hits a point where if you can't actually help these clubs at the highest levels you end up being used in this grander transfer scheme, and your development suffers. They don't suffer much from it. The player does. Berhalter talked a lot recently about this type of thing, but he actually negatively contributed to this situation for Che, so maybe he should take some blame for what happens with some of these kids.
     
  6. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    I used to be of the mind guys like Che, Sealy et all should get over to Europe ASAP and stay there. That has changed. With the experience of Reynolds, Pepi, Cannon, Che etc., MLS has showed they will play kids for awhile and then sell them. But the old thinking may have played a part in Che, Sealy, Roberts going over early as the end goal seems to be to get to Europe and a big club. What kid doesn't' want to play for Chelsea, Man u, Bayern, Juventus etc. For some it works (see Tessman, Richards so far)

    But the way to get there may be now changing. The Adams and Aaronson route of staying in the MLS and making a name for yourself first seems like a safer bet to ensure playing time once you get there.

    I would suggest Che is young enough to still come back to FCD ( take the starting job at age 18 if he is good enough) play until he is 21, and then be sold for Pepi money as a starter to a good euro team.

    I have been told there is still a bias against American players in Europe unless they have already established a name for themselves first. If you go over young and unproven, you have to work harder than everyone else and be better to get that spot on the roster.
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Eh. Che is still only 18. Long time to go.

    The players want to go to Europe, and the money is right.

    So................................it's up to them to succeed.

    "Failure rates" are always going to be high. It's tough when you think of these kids as people with dreams and aspirations. We all want them to reach their goals. But it ain't happening for most of them.
     
  8. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    When did we start confirming everything he writes is true?
    We are now just accepting 18 yr olds as failures? Let the kid grow up aliitle bit and just wait. This over the top declarations of failure come across as kinda self important.
     
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  9. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
    He said long time to go didn’t call him a failure.

    I think the judging of Che as a subpar prospect based on his play as a 15/16 year old with a position change to be the weird part.

    I agree with you btw way too young to be declaring too much about Che. He got some time last year for hoffenheim. Nobody was calling Chris Richards a failure for playing for Bayern 2 at an older age.
     
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  10. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #3510 ussoccer97531, Jul 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2022
    If you are talking about me, I am not judging Che on what he was years ago. I’m judging him on a combination of everything. Switching positions can be a reason why a player can break out later, but I explained why that didn’t happen with Che and it was mostly all hype.

    What is your response to the idea that Bayern decided not to purchase him and then Hoffenheim isn’t sure they want to keep him? I think that probably says something. Maybe he isn’t as good as some have previously suggested. Has anyone seen really good performances from him recently?

    Che is far from the only example of this. Kobi Henry will almost certainly be another example of what I’ve suggested. Sealy another. I bring this up because it’s upsetting as a USMNT fan when you can see it coming from a mile away. We only have a finite number of talented players. Che is one of them, but it’s not good when we have players who have very good potential pathways in front of them and take ones where the chance of success is very slim.
     
  11. Campeones123

    Campeones123 Member

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Sep 2, 2021
    I'm not sure "hype" convinces any top team in Europe to pull the trigger on an American kid, a club like Hoffenheim or any of the top teams across Europe that were in for him are far more sophisticated in their scouting than we can claim to be. I think the 2 year loan term had nothing to do with Hoffenheim having doubts and more to do with FCD's valuation (which ruled out others). I think it's great Hoffenheim is looking to help find a solution for the player as there's obviously high upside in his game and I assume they realize he's too good to be playing for their 2nd team. He's a 18 year old CB/RB jumping from FCD after a handful of games to a Bundesliga 1st team as a CB/RB, not so easy to break into, even JoGo for all his talent's isn't cracking his team yet.

    I agree it was too early for him to make the move, he could have benefited from playing a full season in the MLS but sometimes these kids don't know what's best until things like this happen. In the long term, it could be a blessing in disguise and a great example for the young players in the MLS with an eye on Europe.
     
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  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I wasn't mentioning that failure part with relation to Che.

    He's only 18. What made him an attractive target for Hoffenheim hasn't changed. Long way to go.

    What we're seeing recently is a lot of these MLS-based kids "reaching for the stars" and moving to big clubs in top 4 leagues. That's where the money is, and that's where the talent congregates. Pepi, Tessmann, Reynolds, Che, etc. We understand why. The dream isn't to play for Utrecht. Its not just FCD kids. Taylor Booth, Alex Mendez, Uly Llanez, Sebastian Soto, Kobe Hernandez-Foster................the list is endless. Blah, blah, blah.

    But only the precious few like Weston McKennie, Christian Pulisic, Gio Reyna excel and stick.

    Do we want our kids to not "reach for the stars?" Of course we want them to. That's where the money is too. Ricardo Pepi's deal with Augsburg was life changing for him and his family.

    Is there another path available? Sure. Brenden Aaronson's path of staying in MLS until he was 20, and then moving to an Austrian team..............seems to be working out for him. Then again, let's see if he's actually successful in England. Would Bryan Reynolds have been better off going to Belgium in the first place? I guess so. Hindsight is 20/20. The Belgian clubs weren't going to pay what Roma paid.

    We have to define "failure" as well. Sebastian Lletget flamed out in Europe at West Ham. Never got an opportunity and left. But he's had a long and lucrative career in this sport. Made a nice living for himself and his family. Isn't that the first goal? Uly Llanez, etc. can do the same thing. Keep the dream alive.
     
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  13. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the subject of Pepi, do we know he actually gets paid more than he would be at Dallas? Sure, he likely got the usual 10% of his $20 million transfer, but given how happy Dallas was to bump up Paxton and Jesus's contracts before they had to, I'm not sure whatever Pepi's Augsburg salary is is more than what his FCD contract would be. And especially not so much more that you'd risk future potential earnings that depend on career development.

    Earning $500k in MLS is still going to be life changing for his family. Maybe not as immediately as a nice lump sum of $2m, but it will do more than enough.
     
  14. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think players will now have to make a tough decision about whether to go early for a big payday but possibly tank your career if you didn't immediately make a splash or stay in MLS a bit longer until you're tearing the league up and then move up the ladder and make a play for the long term. The second option could also flame out if you get an injury but unless you're a phenom most players keep stepping up levels until they hit their ceiling. Skipping levels can be a big set back. So quick and sure thing money now or a slow roll that could lead to a much more lucrative career in the long run?
     
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  15. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    So, our guys will have to do what most around the world do now? Make decisions, hopefully have reps with your best interest at heart, have good advisors, and accept what can happen to you. Most important, if the dream doesn‘t go your way initially, are you going to be mentally tough enough to bounce back? That is the question.
     
  16. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    Agree with most of what is said here and I was not suggesting one path is right or wrong or better than the other. With regard to Che, he is still young, and time will tell on him.

    It's such a personal decision when to go and I can see going early for the money, which I have been told is very good, life changing. Even for the guys not named Pepi, they are making a ton of money. Europe just pays more. Having said that, if you only get one contract and fall off the roster, that won't help. I do anticipate all these guys going over early could still come back to the MLS however and make good money too. But I guess Thomas Roberts story will show us more on that front. I hope he breaks through at FCD soon and does well.

    As for Pepi, I saw him at a youth game the other day and mentioned we watch him early every Saturday and are rooting for him from back in Texas. He sounded ready to get back to Germany and get started. Kid has a great attitude and drive. Told him we hoped to see him scoring goals in Germany and look forward to him starting in Qatar. He laughed but entertained my musings. Good kid.
     
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  17. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
    I think he should’ve stayed at Dallas and gotten way more playing time.

    not sure I have a ton of comment on Bayern passing on him. I don’t think Bayern wanted to make big investments in prospects like that and probably priced out. Could be they didn’t rate him too but they definitely gave him BL2 league time which they didn’t have to if he was no good. So, interesting signals there.
     
  18. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Bundesliga 3, but I understand your point.
     
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  19. twoolley

    twoolley Member+

    Jan 3, 2008
    sorry meant BM2 :). RL!
     
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  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Not always at this point. Certainly not “Europe.”

    Jesus’ current contract has a higher AAV than Richards’, and Richards is a much more talented player.

    I don’t think Sam Vines is making bank, either on the other end of the spectrum.

    Everyone’s first contract sucks, and the big money is at the top on Europe, but a bunch of these guys who went over aren’t making anything.

    But I agree, the first contract is meaningless.
     
  21. Agent_Orange

    Agent_Orange Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Nov 17, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bayern World Squad's final game tomorrow against the Bayern U19s. Tarik Scott's been a frequent starter so far, and scored a brace in their last warm-up game.
     
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  22. Agent_Orange

    Agent_Orange Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Nov 17, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scott played 88 minutes as his team got run over, 4-0. Some good moments some bad moments. If my poor German is to be trusted, the commentators were singling him out as someone the World Squad coaches have been impressed with through the process.
     
  23. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I would've more easily given Ty Reynolds a HG contract than Smith.
     
  24. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    I have stopped watching NTXC now that it's no longer on ESPN plus, but wonder why you say this? Is it from the last game?

    This is what is so interesting to me about talent evaluation is how subjective it is. Not saying you are wrong but this article was written after the last game and apparently the club and coach are very happy with Colin's progression.
    Maples enjoys return to DFW as Dynamo Dos leapfrogs North Texas SC via shootout win - 3rd Degree

    Played 90 and has assist in the last game.

    I still don't think he is a true rt back and it appears his best contributions come when he is attacking. Let him attack and see what he can do as a winger. They have switched him back and forth with Pope on the right side so it seems even they are not sure where he fits best. But it does appear Pa Ma Do Kah is happy with him for now.
     
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Anybody know why Blaine Ferri is no longer starting for NTSC?

    As far as Smith goes, Pa Ma Do Kah sure believes he's progressing.
    We'll see.

    I was skeptical about Bryan Reynolds, until I wasn't. :)
     

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