Whether it's for handball or simulation, it seems like 6 of the 7 visible black players (and maybe all 7) are complaining or making some sort of visual appeal about something before the white player even slams the ball down. So that definitely tells me something has been going on before this incident. That's a great spot by @El Rayo Californiano . Any "hey you should card that obvious dissent" appeal after-the-fact is just gratuitous. I've yet to meet the professional player who actually cares about dissent for dissent's sake. They just like to point it out in the hopes their opponent gets (what they view as) a "cheap" yellow.
Kevin Stott has the whistle for the weekday rescheduled match of New Mexico United vs Rio Grande Valley in the USL Championship.
The Stott game went this way. Teams play again tonight, albeit with some else as CR. Not sure the fans knew who was the Center, But then again, they are rarely there to watch the ref team. Cheers, Mi3ke
Two things of note: - https://streamja.com/w2zjo 11th minute red card for DOGSO-H. Apologies for the quality. ESPN+ is not really... good at quality. - https://streamja.com/lXyL3 Surprised to not see a yellow/red with the way some of Hartford (blue) players man-handled the referee
Hmm, that first one, I think, comes off the chest and not the arm. Not dissimilar to Stott sending off Jermaine Taylor in Houston years ago. The second one, aside from wanting to see some sort of card for the crowding, is interesting because of the time on the scorebug so I went and had a look. Broadcast says +3 (don't think they showed the board though). SFP foul happens at about 90+1:20 and play restarts right about 2 minutes later due to a player needing treatment. Having seen no additional significant losses of time in the period beyond 90, the final whistle would be expected between 90+5:00 and 90+5:59. Penalty foul was at 90+5:53.
agree that from what I can see on the stream, looks like chest not arm on the handling of the ref, I really think the Game needs to really crack down on touching the referee in dissent. At the levels I do, the player is gone. And I think in many pro sports, grabbing an official like that as pretty much an auto-ejection. And I think it used to be pretty much that in soccer. I think we need to get back to a much more strict standard in the professional game, as it sends the message to grass roots that it is OK.
That's referee assault in the Hartford v Tampa match. The fact that the first player isn't red carded for that grab is a problem. On the DOGSO-Handling, I'm willing to entertain either possibility. There's no way--at least not with that footage--I can be certain it didn't strike a part of the arm that is punishable. And the arm definitely makes the body unnaturally bigger. So now you have a problem. You've got the action necessary to call the penalty but you don't have the certainty on video. Would have been very interesting to see how this would shake out with VAR. As things stand, it's one of those where the referee just has to trust what he sees (though maybe lean toward no-call if it's a toss-up or debatable); if the referee is certain he saw the ball hit hand, not much that can be done here.
That ref that got grabbed and it looked like potentially patted on the face right before that should have just blown the game over for a ref assault and let USL deal with it. Disgusting.
Well, no. Because then the penalty wouldn’t be taken and the team in question likely would have benefited. But he should have red carded the player. If we want competition authorities to deal with referee assault then WE have to address it as VC as the first line of defense. You can’t exactly write up a referee assault report when you don’t even give a red card. PSRA and PRO have worked together to make this a point of emphasis. And it’s gotten through with most in MLS (Dickerson had one a few weeks ago, Mendoza had one last night that he will write up). Unfortunately, old habits are dying hard at the levels just below that.
This is the correct answer. The referee is in a dangerous position surrounded by players. He needs to get out of there fast and end the game because giving a red card in that situation could lead to him being further assaulted, possibly with permanent damage. I'm sorry but referees have died from a simple punch. Don't be a hero and show a red, run.
I'm sorry, but we need to distinguish between what one might tolerate in their local amateur match and how a professional referee is supposed to handle a professional match. Violent conduct against referees is written into the Laws. It's a red card; the remedy is not "abandon the match." Ignoring this type of VC--whether in the manner this referee did or in the opposite extreme, by simply ending the match--is not "the right answer." If we want competition authorities to punish this behavior appropriately, then we have to sanction it correctly. Moreover, the idea that a referee is "in a dangerous position surrounded by players" could apply at least a half dozen times every weekend in most professional leagues. If that's a pretext for blowing the whistle and abandoning a match, we just created worldwide upheaval. Further, if you don't think ending the match prematurely and running to the locker room is going to enflame a situation like this even more (because then the other team is going to be irate, too, and likely chasing you), I'm not sure how to convince you otherwise. The referee was manhandled. It's violent conduct. A red card should have been shown. Doing so consistently for things like this is how we make players think twice before they reach the point where they engage in this behavior. Ending games and running for the hills is not. It's reserved for extreme situations, which most likely will occur at amateur levels.
Sorry I know that he would never end the match for something like that, I was just thinking what kind of chaos the game would get thrown into if it actually happened and laughed to myself. I wonder what would happen if a referee got legitimately punched in the face or something in a pro game. Would he still be expected to just issue a red card and the game continues on?
If that were to happen, it would be the extreme exception. I think at that point, the officiating team is going to the locker room and contacting the league—at minimum. What happens next probably depends on a number of factors and variables. But termination would obviously be a distinct possibility.
One of the things that really must happen in an extreme case like that is that the police must be summoned to arrest the assailant for battery, and in a professional environment, it's probably at least plausible that the police are already there, and might have even witnessed it themselves.
HAHAHA That's never going to happen. Even if he was briefly detained he'd be let go without any charges. If anyone doubts that I'd like to point to the myriad of examples of Pro athletes getting away with anything and everything. It's like charging a cop with spousal abuse.
As @MassachusettsRef said, we have to help ourselves first before we start complaining to the leagues to do something. This referee had multiple opportunities to produce a red card for violent conduct, dissent (keeper could have received multiple cards for dissent prior to the PK and after the match when he started running towards the referee) or abusive language after the match. Look at end of the video when the whole team starts running towards him. I'm assuming no red card was shown in this match? No referee, assessor, assignor or league administrator who has been involved at the professional level would want or expect four or five red cards issued but it is not too much to ask or expect for one red card after awarding the penalty kick and one red card after the match. As I said in an earlier clip about a referee on another USL game not giving an obvious yellow card for dissent (slamming the ball after not getting a cheap free kick), the days of trying to manage situations like this or not trying to be the "bad guy" are over in North American professional soccer. PRO wants and expects these incidents to be punished appropriately, especially when it is set up on a platter for you. The referee not doing anything about the dissent, abusive language and violent conduct in the clip above is causing more headaches for the league and PRO and PSRA than if he did. I'm sure PSRA would want some kind of suspension/discipline to some of these players and are asking USL/PRO in emails and conference calls to do something about it. How can PRO go to bat for PSRA if their referee just stands there doing nothing about it? It would open up a whole can of worms in terms of post match discipline towards referees when referees fail to act? One final point. If the referee gives a red card here, we say "well done to the referee for upholding the Laws and standing up for himself" and we move on to another incident. Instead, obvious violent conduct, dissent, and abusive language that is ignored turns this into a two or three page discussion.
Watched the Hartford clip. At least two separate VC items. I counted six times I would have cautioned for dissent at a minumum. 30 and 7 also were delaying the restart. Out of all of that, there’s one dissent caution for the keeper. That’s not good. I would have loved to see a VC red for 30 (which would have meant everything he did after that added to his suspension) and a delaying the restart caution to 7 in addition to the dissent to the keeper. If 7 or the keeper used any abusive language (hard to think they didn’t), then the cautions get upgraded to straight reds based on what I’m seeing in the video. If PRO doesn’t come out and say this is completely unacceptable from both Hartford (behavior) and the center (unwilling to deal with it), then we have big issues that I’m not sure will ever improve.
To tell you how far we've come at referee abuse/assault look at this video above. I think if this happened in a current MLS match, Taylor Twellman isn't applauding the referee (nor are any other announcers) for not giving a red card there.
Well presuming that the game was played in the United States if a player on the field publicly (on video) actually punched a referee in the face and the referee opted to press charges, I have to think they would stick long enough to get the culprit taken to jail and booked, and I'm fairly certain it would go to trial. The video above is different. MassRef is right that in that case a red card is needed and the appropriate action for myriad reasons. But, if we're talking about a PUNCH TO THE FACE then we should be going to an extra step beyond the red card and pressing criminal charges even in a pro-environment.
Victims "pressing charges" is a myth in most states. Prosecutors make the decision as to whether or not to charge a miscreant. They may or may not, depending on jurisdiction and situation, take the victim's wishes into account, but the decision rests with the prosecutor. But they can only prosecute what they know about. For those of not in a professional stadium, it is important to call the police and start the process.
Good info. Something of a coloquialism, then. (https://www.mylawquestions.com/what-does-it-mean-to-press-charges.htm) File a police report then... the cops can add it to their already collected video evidence. Then the DA can do whatever they're going to do.