Summer 2022 Transfer Thread - What's next???

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by chjoak, Feb 2, 2022.

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  1. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    Yeah Chelsea seems kinda weird this summer. As sorta wingers, IIRC they have Sterling, Pulisic, Mount, Werner, Havertz, Ziyech, Hudson-Odoi, Gallagher returning from loan and supposedly some interest in Cristiano Ronaldo.

    Otoh, if Pepe and Reiss Nelson leave we have 5 players for 3 positions. And the best options from the U23's (Balogun and Patino) might need to go on loan for minutes. There's probably a deal to be had if Chelsea were willing to sell to us. I almost don't even want to think about it given our record of buying from Chelsea but you got figure we'll get at least one more player as some kind of forward.
     
  2. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    This whole case is really weird. Circumstantially, it looks really bad for me, but hopefully its weird in some way that he's actually innocent.

    So he's in England and goes to Spain on vacation. She's in England, also goes to Spain on vacation, maybe together maybe not. The incident, whatever it was, happens in Spain. He comes home to England, she comes home to England (maybe together maybe not). At some time later, she makes a complaint to the Met Police, and here we are.

    Now presumably there was no complaint to the Spanish cops (or maybe there was and they told her to pound sand). One thing I didn't completely realize before is that the Met and the CPS do have jurisdiction for this, due to changes in the law some time ago. But it doesn't really explain why they are prosecuting the case so aggressively. Maybe some of the UK people can chime in as to how typical this would be. Supposedly she has some photographs of bruising on her phone, plus her own statements. For the US, at least that seems like a really tenuous case if that's all the evidence.

    But the weirdest thing is that in the course of the interrogations, the suspect in this incident is also the suspect in two other supposedly similar incidents as well. And the timing seems wrong to me. Normally, you would figure that a suspect who has a repeated history of doing this sort of thing would be charged for one incident, and other incidents would come out of the woodwork and get in contact with the prosecutors. But here, nobody has been charged, how would the detectives get access to information regarding other incidents?

    Two possibilities come to mind for me. 1. The wife is the complaining witness, who in some way also has knowledge of these other incidents. She goes to the Met on her own behalf, and also tells the detectives about these other incidents. Or 2. The perpetrators filmed all the incidents, and the detectives have access to or some knowledge of the videos. So the suspect quickly becomes a suspect in all the incidents.

    Obviously there are other possibilities as well, but the fact that these other two incidents seemed to come out of nowhere as quickly as they did seems like very bad news for the suspect.
     
  3. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. Sounds like he is hitching his wagon to Ten Hag...

     
  4. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But Fab says we are still in play...

     
  5. leppercut

    leppercut Member+

    Oct 10, 2006
    SLC and Anchorage
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  6. Rewinder

    Rewinder Member+

    Jun 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Fabrizio is a tap in merchant. He is just regurgitating the stuff he had already been able to confirm a week ago, but he is not as close to the story as the Argentinian journalists, who are better connected to the Martinez camp.

    To be fair to him, he does seem to independently confirm things, but that usually means being late to the story when its a high profile transfer that other journalists are working on.
     
  7. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The rape story, i.e. the lack of info/clarity about it, is frustrating. On today's AV podcast Elliot started by saying "we're just not talking about any rumor that may involve and Arsenal player". OK, on one side that's fair b/c we don't really know anything yet other than a somewhat vague press release from the police. But on the other side, we should be able to be talking about what-if's. I.e. what do we do if Partey cannot play for us, either for some time or forever? That seems like a completely legit convo to be having now, and I'm not sure I understand why the AV podders wouldn't go there. Maybe they're just holding off for more clarity. But how long can/will they do that????
     
  8. Rewinder

    Rewinder Member+

    Jun 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Edu is taking a lot of Ls in the transfer market. Failed to convince Vlahovic, Raphina and Martinez. Sold Guendouzi for 10m, Mavrapanos for 3m. Only managed Jesus because the other 2 teams interested wouldn't make him the center piece of their attack.
     
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  9. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    My theory is that United like Martinez but weren't going to pursue him this summer as CB isn't an immediate need for them. But once Arsenal's interest was shown to be serious and multiple bids were made, they realized they had to get him now or risk losing him. Arsenal's best hope of landing him was for United to prioritize other signings.
     
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  10. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    Could be legal trouble for Clive and Tim in the UK. But I imagine Elliot thinks they are staying above the fray or something...while spending the rest of the podcast on baseless transfer rumors.
     
  11. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    This is not uncommon for all but maybe 5 or 6 teams in European football, i.e., teams that can overpay for transfers. Even United, who can overpay, are not getting everyone they want, they were almost certainly in for Haaland and they probably aren’t getting de Jong, both Laporte and Xavi want to keep him and he reportedly wants to stay. I addition, if they do end up getting Martinez for £43m to replace their £80m LCB, then Maguires transfer has to be considered a loss.

    As far as Guendouzi is concerned, the drama between him and Arteta destroyed any residual value he may have had, Edu was probably lucky to get £10m for him. Teams knew Arsenal had to sell and because of his attitude issues there weren’t enough teams willing to take a chance on him to create a bidding war.

    It’s also very hard to sign players that are fixated on other clubs, e.g., Vlahovic on Juventus and Raphinha on Barcelona.
     
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  12. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They would have to couch it in purely hypothetical terms, saying something like, "last season Partey was a single point of failure for our squad, and we suffered in April/May because of that. What is the club doing to address this?" But my understanding is that you couldn't mention his name even tangentially with the rumors we're all talking about here without running afoul of UK defamation laws. IOW, you couldn't say at all in today's pod WHY he might not be able to play this season. Waaaay easier to just not discuss it.
     
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  13. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cool. Will it be like college football and he'll have a bunch of hats sitting on a table, feinting between one or the other before finally donning the cap of his destination team?
    :rolleyes:
     
  14. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    Alternatively, Arsenal could hijack Vieira’s move for Cheick Doucoure.
     
  15. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would have to move quick. CP supposedly agreed personal terms a month ago and are just trying to finalize a fee.
     
  16. Silva 5

    Silva 5 Member+

    Mar 10, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Twitter tells me the latest offer for Tielemans is 23m + 10m in performance clauses.
     
  17. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1767 NorthBank, Jul 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022
    Yeah I did consider that rationale, but as you point out, today's pod and much of every summertime pod is made up of debate, based almost entirely on rumor and speculation. Also it seems to me, on purely layman terms, that if they couched everything in "as it's rumored that there might be some significant limits to Partey's playing time, we thought we'd talk about the hypothetical of what the club might do in that scenario".

    So you think my phraseology would get them in trouble? Seems kinda crazy... it's not like they're saying anything remotely close to "Partey is a rapist" When C.Ronaldo was accused of something similar a few years back it was discussed openly on pods. Do you thin that was because Spanish slander/libel law is more forgiving than UK law? Or because Ronaldo's name was published by the authorities, in which case it was public knowledge and OK as podcast fare?

    Edit: A new Arsecast has since hit, and Andrew’s opening remarks ended with “not much has happened, that we can talk about…” I read special but subtle emphasis into those last 5 words. The gag order that you guys have suggested seems well and truly in place. From this Yank’s point of view, this seems like a heavy-handed suppression of a free press, or of free speech in general. But obviously what one Yank thinks isn’t really Germaine to how UK law works. :p
     
  18. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #1768 daedalus, Jul 8, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022
    it's hard to see how we could beat united to martinez. he'd be reuniting with his ten hag, united generally pay higher wage than we do, and he'd be looking at being a CB instead of LB.

    i mean, once united came in, it's an uphill battle for martinez as mentioned above. vlahovic and raphinha were/are fixed on a single target the same way phillips was fixed on going to manchester city and lewandowski barcelona this offseason.

    we utterly fouled up guendouzi's situation the way we did with ozil, aubameyang, etc. there were not much way to wriggle out of that. problem with mavropanos was lack of market. he had a good season but i don't think there were much market for him even then and you could see clearly that he was not in arteta's plan. we've just done a garbage job in managing situations in general.
     
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  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    You can't hint your way around naming him. The difference in other cases is the player being named elsewhere in official circles or by the complainant. Then the media has an interest under UK law in reporting.

    There is no gagging order. The player has not been charged. That means the matter is not in the Courts.

    UK police abide by certain agreed procedures in not naming arrested suspects, due to the presumption of innocence. In other words, police avoid making statements that could cause the public to believe a suspect is guilty, outside of the judicial process. This reverses when the suspect is charged and named. In simple terms, the way the state impugns guilt is by charging, not by making pre-charging statements in the media about what people might have done. Remember plenty of people are arrested who in fact have committed no crime at all.

    Ditto the media abide by long established guidelines in not naming. The state did not suppress any speech in US 1st Amendment type terms. Rather media do not name because they don't want to get sued by the player

    Neither HM nor the Court suppressed Andrew's free speech.
     
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  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Exactly. I think this topic will instead be discussed in terms of a club's actions. e.g. game selections and transfer targets

    e.g I noticed in The Athletic yesterday, in an article discussing Utd's striker problems, they noted that Greenwood was "unavailable for selection"
     
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  21. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Melbourne, Aus
    Gotta hope Edu had some quality Plan B ideas and contacts, can't rely on buying Brazilians named Gabriel because I think we now have the best 3.
     
  22. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    surely, there are more. wenger's deal was to eventually have XI midfielders, maybe edu's can be XI gabriels!
     
  23. Serengeti_Boy

    Serengeti_Boy Member+

    Sep 15, 2009
    Serengeti, East Africa
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Tanzania
    I agree with you. Why we chase guys fixated on other clubs or trying to "hijack" is just poor targeting.
     
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  24. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--

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  25. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    The prior allegation, the rape of the same woman twice, two months apart, would appear to be date rape, no less heinous (no is no), but a defense lawyer would raise questions about her continued association with the player. This may explain why it wasn’t seriously pursued at the time.
     
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