2022 African Women's Cup of Nations

Discussion in 'Women's International' started by toad455, Jan 26, 2021.

  1. Lechus7

    Lechus7 Member+

    Aug 31, 2011
    Wroclaw
     
  2. kribi

    kribi Member

    Lyon
    France
    Jan 21, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    #102 kribi, Jul 6, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
    :(:(:cry:



    a real serious and big study should be done about this injury ! how many players this year ??? :devilish:

    PS: and the three Barca 's attackers in less than 2 months (Hermoso, Putellas, Oshoala)
     
  3. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    #103 SiberianThunderT, Jul 6, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
    The number of women of color who have been barred from sport by stupid cis-inspired gender gatekeeping is tragic and infuriating. :mad:
    If someone is unnaturally tall or really good at building muscle or have highly efficient metabolism, people don't bat an eye, but suddenly naturally high testosterone is a problem? Give me a ********ing break.
     
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  4. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Sorry, this is nonsense. Do you want to allow males to play in female teams? The testosterone level allowed is much above what females have.
     
  5. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    #105 SiberianThunderT, Jul 6, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
    If fear of AMAB people entering female sports is keeping actual cisgender females from participating, then that fear has gone way too far. Natural diversity is a thing.

    Also, TBQH, reducing people to their hormone levels is incredibly dehumanizing and should never had entered the conversation in the first place.
     
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  6. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The question is: Why is the testosterone level so high? Is it because she has testicle?
     
  7. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    There are a multitude of reasons why a female might have naturally high T. And as noted before, this issue seems to affect women of color far more than caucasian women, which honestly reeks of historical biases in Western medicine not accurately capturing the full extent of what's "natural".

    The fact that you jump to speculating on an athlete's genitals, with zero historical evidence that she's intersex or anything other than a cisgender woman, is telling and honestly more than a little bit creepy... Besides, if an intersex person is AFAB and has identified as such her entire life, then she deserves to continue competing as a women regardless of "how intersex" she might be.
     
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  8. Lechus7

    Lechus7 Member+

    Aug 31, 2011
    Wroclaw
    "The elephant in the room is to deal with this issue of gender verification, which seems to be discriminatory, in the sense that you seem to have it in this competition [but not others].

    "But these are professional players, who are also playing professional football in different leagues, where that requirement doesn't seem to be in tandem with what CAF is asking."

    Consider.

    Banda was eligible to play in Tokyo most likely because the norm for testoterone count in Olympics was set a bit broader (by IOC, AFC or perhaps Japan Medical Asoc,).
    For this competition CAF (or perhaps Morocco Mediacal Asoc) introduced their own norm which is much more strict or narrow and she didn't pass it.

    For me that's all there is about it.
    One single medical standard don't exist and never will - people are too much diverse for it - on that scientists agree. Which leave unperfect solutions that on occasion gonna be exploited by different agendas.
     
  9. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very much this. Medical research historically has largely been based on data from tests on white men, with women of all races being far less studied, much less women of color.

    And, Banda played in the 2014 U17 WWC plus multiple games for Zambia since 2017, including the Olympics. All of that was okay, but now it's not? There's a sudden new standard being implemented by CAF, and it's stupid.
     
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  10. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
     
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  11. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    What is Cameroon doing? Togo took a 1-0 lead earlier but Cameroon countered. Currently 1-1 at halftime.
     
  12. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    Is Cameroon trying to not win the group? A quarterfinal setup would see them face the runner-up in Group A. Winning their group would see them play the runner-up in Group C(probably Nigeria).
     
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  13. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
     
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  14. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    Correction, Cameroon wins the group, they face the runner-up from Group A. They finish second and they face the runner-up from Group C.
     
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  15. Lechus7

    Lechus7 Member+

    Aug 31, 2011
    Wroclaw
    Major flop by Cameroon.
     
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  16. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    Zambia should defeat Togo to win their group. Interesting to see the Cameroon -Tunisia result.
     
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  17. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The more I've thought about this, the angrier I've become. So, I'll respond with a couple of more questions: Why does Michael Phelps have such a long torso and long wingspan? Why is Lebron James so tall? There is natural variation in all kinds of physiological characteristics that give athletes an advantage in their sport, but they don't disqualify them from competing. Governing bodies testing testosterone levels has not been reciprocated by any kind of "gender testing" among men's sports. And the athletes who keep getting banned in multiple sports are almost all African women. That's not by accident. It's not only racist, but sexist as well.
     
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  18. kribi

    kribi Member

    Lyon
    France
    Jan 21, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    France
  19. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    LeBron James is not disqualified from competing because we have no categories based on height in Basketball. If we had a category for players under 2,00 meter he wouldn`t be allow to compete in it. In Football we have two categories: male and female. Males have a big physical advantage over females as you easily can see when male youth teams beat the best female teams. So it`s necessary to make this differentiation if you don`t want to exclude women from top-class sport.
    Gender testing in men`s sport is not necessary because having female sex characteristics doesn`t give you an advantage compared to men. On the other side having male sex characteristics can give you an great advantage compared to women. A high testosterone level alone is not enough to ban a player.

    You can find the FIFA regulations for gender verification here
    https://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/3950e57162ea513d/original/ihf3yx6kw3insqt6r0i6-pdf.pdf

    Banda can have played many years with these high testosterone level because the gender verification only happens when there is a request. Not only Banda but also three other Zambian players don`t play at WAFCON because of gender verification requests so it`s obvious for me that the requests came from an African association and it has nothing to do with racism.
     
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  20. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd recommend looking into the history of gender testing. Women in the past have undergone procedures and taken medication with no medical reason and at risk to their own health simply in order to compete. Did you also know that one of the major causes of hyperandrogenism is PCOS? (For those who don't know what PCOS is, it's cysts on ovaries which can cause heavy and/or painful menstruation and a host of other symptoms...the point is it only happens if you have ovaries! To be clear, I'm not saying this is the case for Badra, just making a point.)

    Also would you be interested to know that in a study of male and female athletes, using the current "standard", 16.5% of male elite athletes had testosterone levels below the male range and 2% crossed into the female range, while almost 15% of female athletes had an above the permissible level meaning there is significant overlap and much more natural variation than the standard allows. (from https://www.scientificamerican.com/...dn-t-keep-female-athletes-out-of-competition/) You don't also see men being stopped from competing because they have too much natural testosterone, do you? The point is that maybe the standard is to allow natural variation for men but not for women, and so gender testing is inherently policing women's bodies.

    And you're missing the point on racism...there's natural variation of testosterone in women, and African women often seem to be on the higher end of that natural variation. The standard itself of how much testosterone is allowed is racist. I don't care who asked for the testing.
     
  21. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The players don`t get banned just for a high testosterone level. There is always a examination by independent experts. So even if African women would have a higher natural variation (any proof for this?) it only means that more African women are in danger that their gender will be doubted but it doesn`t mean that women without male sex characteristics will be banned.
     
  22. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
     
  23. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
     
  24. bigsoccertst1

    bigsoccertst1 Member+

    United States
    Sep 22, 2017
    #124 bigsoccertst1, Jul 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2022
    Since you mentioned racism, it is worth mentioning that the referenced endocrinological study on Olympic athletes was full of white athletes.
    Just look at the athlete breakdown by sport (ice hockey, bandy?!?, rowing, canoeing, swimming, alpine skiing). For the love of Buddah, that is white!

    https://www.researchgate.net/public...lite_Athletes_in_the_Post-Competition_Setting

    The study went as far as to eliminate female football players from the study, despite the existence of 54 women in the 2012 Olympics. 37 of 72 male football players were included in the study. Why?

    Females are 34.4% of the overall sample size. Athlete breakdown by sport does not match the number of athletes tested for serum testosterone levels (males: 454 vs 446 in serum test; females: 239 vs 234 in serum test).

    When the study compares male vs female percentages, the study fails to address the 2:1 ratio disparity between gender sample sizes. Rather convenient, to say the least.
     
  25. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    It`s `Elite Athletes`, not Olympic Athletes. Only whites in Track and Field and Basketball? What do you mean by `existence of 54 women in the 2012 Olympics?`:confused:
     

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