2022-2023 UEFA Referee Discussion [R]

I understand the concept, but the bad first one is not an immediate red card situation so not as critical. I know the relevance could come later, but I think most people accept the seriousness of the 2nd YC.
In fact that is why several more obvious 2nd YCs are not given because they have to be way above the threshold due to the outcome.

To my mind this is major flaw in the system if such a serious error with enormous repercussions in the present match and future ones cannot be corrected if it clearly should be.

PH

 

We already saw this in the Spurs-Liverpool match earlier this season. The Kane tackle on Robinson. Much worse than this NZ one but only YC to Kane. Many people think it should have been a red card and PGMOL had a tough time trying to justify the decision.

PH

 

I actually now feel a little better about this one . . . I only saw the brief clip of the "elbow" and thought a red had been given on VAR review, which would be truly inexplicable. I can at least understand how Turpin could have mistaken this as something that deserved a yellow from a single look from some angles. But still a significant miss.

I think expansion of VAR is only a matter of time. A play like this in the WC could easily nudge us down that slope by adding 2CTs to the list. (But would that also add in 2Cts not given?) It also seems to me that there is a lot more gray on cautions than on straight send offs, which makes that addition muddle.

Similarly, I think we are just one important goal being scored from a CK after a missed CK/GK call away from CK/GK decisions being added.

 

I think that would be the same upgrade in an MLS game and PRO would endorse the upgrade. Look at where the contact was and the force of the contact.

For the PL, well, I think you have to specify the week of the season for anyone to provide insight on that, as they seem to be all over the map. But I do think it would be far less likely to be upgraded there.

 

That is a different case. The plays are being reviewed under the missed red card standard. You cannot review 2nd yellows, either the ones that are given or the ones that are not given.

 

Further to the Australia vs Peru WC qualifier

Watch Redders omfg https://t.co/yr1ZCk1ncn pic.twitter.com/U6ZQ51FugB

— Between the Leagues (@BTLFoot) June 14, 2022

I was at the match yestetday and I think it has been overlooked that the Peru keeper had instructions written on his water bottle for penalties. At the first chance Redmayne threw it into the stand behind the goal 🤣

— Sam Gowland (@meizsam) June 14, 2022

Where does this lie on the "if the referee sees it" and "should anything be done" scale?

 

Yeah, the subjectivity of foul calls and yellows could end up like the NFL's pass interference reviewing which got completely scrapped because officials were unwilling to overturn subjective calls.

Turning VAR into coaches challenges is probably too far, but I still think that yellow card offenses as a whole (upgrading to/downgrading from YC) and debatable GK/CK decisions should also be added to the VAR duties.

I really don't understand the point of trying to hamstring VAR to only certain "clear and obvious" offenses. If they do that because they don't want to add an excessive number of delays to the game, then they don't get to have their cake (wanting a perfectly called game) and eat it too (keep the game as delay-free as possible, including limiting VAR use that can help the game be more perfectly called).

 

Well, Yes, he could do that and attempt a "back-door" route to get Turpin to rescind the Caution, but that would take "falling on your sword" to the extreme.

Anytime the VAR erroneously recommends an OFR he is marked down on the Observation report. So, if he recommends a review for a "possible red card" that is clearly wrong, he would get a poorer score, and the fact that he only did so to try and "save" the Referee would count for nothing.

I just cannot see any VAR taking a hit to try and save the Referee in such a manner, especially since the Referee would still get a deduction for issuing the Red Card wrongly in the first place!

Like it or not, at least for now, VAR cannot intervene on Cautions (unless recommending an upgrade to Red), and so the opportunity to save the Referee from making an egregious error such as this, is simply not open to him/her.

 

Did you watch the full clip? There’s a low slash angle which shows the AR 3 yards upfield at the moment the ball passes over the line.

This is a pretty atypical play, it happens on the far side of the goal, multiple defenders involved, and is extremely quick.No way the AR can have certainty on this play. I think he didn’t know for sure and therefore correctly left the flag down.

 

Obviously no trained VAR would ever pull a stunt like that as they are too disciplined in the protocols and they probably wouldn't VAR ever again if they did that.

What if this happened in the World Cup Final or CL Final? The question is not so much would a VAR (frankly, no serious VAR would ever do this) pull this stunt, but more of should he?

How bad of a situation and how important must the match be to where the VAR should fall on his sword for the good of the game?

 

I want to preface this all by saying that I don't think we should have VAR at all.

But devil's advocate, if we ARE going to have VAR, why are we limiting what VAR can look at? Why not just open it up and say that any "match critical" incident can be reviewed, for any reason? Isn't the whole point of VAR to get things right and eliminate any injustices? Why not do that?

 

Good heavens. We could have as many breaks and delays as pointy ball. IMO the only way to make "anything" reviewable is to do it with a coach/captain challenge type model.

 

By having bright lines, all you've done is shift the subjectivity. I agree that anything could be match critical, but we're already drawing lines somewhere. We're moving absurdities around.

Whether a player receives a straight red or a second yellow, the result is the same for the present game- the player is dismissed and the team plays a man down. Why are we parsing the preliminaries?

To take another sport, you can only appeal foul balls in baseball if they go past first or third base. You cannot appeal them in the infield. Why? No one knows.

All sports, in my opinion, are better without any replay. But if you are going to have replay, have replay. If something needs to be reviewed because it was wrong and it affected the game, review it.

 

It's a whole different discussion, but IMHO, VAR would be better if it was manager-initiated via a "coaches challenge" (like in the NBA/NFL/MLB). Each manager gets one challenge a game, and if you lose your challenge, you lose one of your five potential subs. Decision is made by the CR at the monitor.

Then you don't have to worry quite as much about what a "clear and obvious error" is, since the decisions whether to review/not review a decision would no longer rest with a VAR.

 

And when a team has used all of it's subs and the hand of god goal can't be reviewed? Or when the team was right on the first challenge, and the R misses a HB on the goal line to keep a goal out?

Manager reviews cure some problems, but create others. Video review works much better in episodic sports than flow sports. And even there, every sport has limits on what can be reviewed.

I'd still prefer to abolish VAR. But as I said when it first started, once that genie got out of the bottle, it was never going back in.

 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/61844830


"PGMOL can confirm that Bobby Madden will join the National Group of referees from the 2022-23 season," said a statement on behalf of the English referees body.

"Madden will primarily take charge of matches in League One and League Two."