Something…something…Poll, Fire game?

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by bunge, May 28, 2022.

  1. sportscrazed2

    sportscrazed2 Member+

    Jul 30, 2008
    Mordor, Middle Earth
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. harrylee773

    harrylee773 Member+

    Jul 28, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not to mention a team with a bad habit of giving up goals immediately after scoring, not to also mention a team that continually gets dumb yellows and not to also also mention a team that is good for at least one really bad, unnecessary foul a game.

    I like Ezra and I believe he is the right coach for us now and long term. It's his first year coaching and we have to expect a learning curve, but hell, we have Klopas on the bench too and it's maddening that the staff as a whole can't seem to stop this team from making some very rudimentary mistakes game after game after game.
     
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  3. Pennsylvania Dave

    Jul 31, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
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  4. Andy Zilis

    Andy Zilis Member+

    Mar 9, 2005
    Rochelle, IL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Worst loss of the season. Something has to change. Given the way this game played out, it should have been an easy win.

    This team has the talent to be winning way more games than they are. For large stretches of games, they look very good. Not quite good enough finishing, but that's been improving lately. I've liked what I've seen in attack on this road trip.

    The defense has looked fine for the most part . . . or they would if not for too many momentary lapses at critical times in games. I'm not willing to put that down to individual performances or plays anymore.
     
  5. goldclover

    goldclover Member+

    Mar 25, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    My personal look on our new guys this season that were supposed to be the great pickups. Kazcper-great goal finally but other then that has been horrid and looks completely out of place with this team/formation (might be an Ezra issue). Shaq finally looks the amazing passer/dribbler we knew he was all along. Czichos excellent team leader despite the yucky own goal. Muller looks great-full of hustle and actual skills. Torres looks like the real deal in short time. To my count the Fire could have out of those guys all hits but for our lone striker whom honestly needs to be replaced even if just by Duran though I am curious if Guti out wide and either Torres/Muller could play as roaming striker would work. Or fetch us a rich owner and get Lewandowski!! Hehe. I can dream. Oh and one more thing...my boy Sekulic looked great tonight and was picking apart the defense with crosses all night long. Maybe he should stop crossing to our striker hehe.
     
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  6. sportscrazed2

    sportscrazed2 Member+

    Jul 30, 2008
    Mordor, Middle Earth
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not if you believe in statistics. I’d say par for the course
     
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  7. Pennsylvania Dave

    Jul 31, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    In all my years of following this club I've seen my share of lousy losing sides but this year is unique in that it's literally THE BEST losing side I've ever seen since 2009.
    True
     
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  8. juicecrewallstar

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    Mar 1, 2019
    not sure about the strategy to put everything out wide and cross in given the team we have

    fits Shaq's skillset but we don't have the guys to put it home in the air, especially when you start Kacper
     
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  9. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not enough good last passes, not enough strikers getting in good position, not good enough shooting, and another very tough pk call do in the fire.
     
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  10. splunge63

    splunge63 Member+

    Mar 30, 2014
    west burbs
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    We're fuggin' cursed.
     
  11. Pennsylvania Dave

    Jul 31, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I waded back in and watched the highlights of this game and upon further reflection not only did Rafael Navarro not give up a penalty, he didn't even foul the Toronto player. If this tackle is not a legal shoulder charge I don't know what is? He literally runs into the attacking player with his shoulder hitting the other player in HIS shoulder and LITERALLY shoulders him off the ball. He does not come in recklessly, carelessly or with excessive force and he doesn't use his arm or elbow nor come in at an odd angle. If the shoulders were lined up it's literally at 12:00 noon his angle of approach. It's a legit excellent physical tackle and NOT a foul and therefore NOT a penalty. (See minute 1:50 to review)
    https://www.chicagofirefc.com/video...hts-toronto-fc-vs-chicago-fire-fc-may-28-2022

    Now the FIFA Laws of the Game state in section 12 (Enjoy the English spellings):
    -------------------------------------
    "Fouls and Misconduct"
    If an offence involves contact, it is penalised by a direct free kick.
    • Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed • Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
    • Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and/or endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off.

    A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:
    (Some stuff about handballs before finally getting to)
    Playing in a dangerous manner Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury. A scissors or bicycle kick is permissible provided that it is not dangerous to an opponent.
    Impeding the progress of an opponent without contact Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player. All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent. A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent.

    -------------------------------

    So it goes on of course but the relevant part is, and what it will always boil down to is was Rafa Navarro "Reckless," "Careless" or did he use "Excessive Force"? I would state in my opinion he did not act recklessly nor carelessly and just because the player was off balance and fell over or maybe embellished some or whatever it was a shoulder to shoulder tackle and not a foul at all. In my humble opinion he used enough force as was necessary to knock the dude off the ball to win it. Further opinions on this rule around the WWW back me up on this.

    "A fair charge is shoulder to shoulder, elbows (on the contact side) against the body, with each player having at least one foot on the ground and both attempting to gain control of the ball. The amount of force allowed is relative to the age and experience of the players, but should never be excessive."--Parameters of a Shoulder Charge

    Another referee writing on Epic Storm declares:
    "9. Physical Contact and shoulder charges are permissible. True. While violent and dangerous conduct is impermissible, jockeying for position and shoulder charges (two players contacting each other when going for the ball) are permitted, even if the contact sends one player flying. For a fair shoulder charge, imagine the ball at 12 o’clock. A fair shoulder charge is where the player, either by being slightly in front, even or in back of the side (but not center of the back) of the opponent pushes the player away from the ball to the 1 or 2 o’clock position. If the player pushes to 3 o’clock he has committed a foul, even if the shoulder charge is fair from all other aspects. The ref looks for the ability to make still play the ball even after the contact is made. So at 1 and 2 o’clock it is reasonable to assume the player can still put a foot on the ball. At 3, the player’s energy is being used to drive away the other player and they can no longer make a legitimate play on the ball as part of that situation. They have to stop one action (the shoulder charge) and step over to do the other action (possess the ball). This is not a fair charge. Any hands up to face or neck area is a foul regardless of possession. Also, any elbow up is a foul when applying pressure on an opponent. A player is in good shape with their hands and arms if they can maintain them at a 45 degree angle or less, provided they are not pushing the opponent to the 3 or 9 o’clock positions."

    Then this article is interesting.
    https://soccertraininglab.com/soccer-shoulder-charge/

    So what it amounts to for me again is this game was decided on bad refereeing. How many is that in a row now? After watching the VAR the referee should have restarted the game with a drop ball.
     
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  12. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Wait, I thought VAR was meant to eliminate these "bad refereeing" calls.

    So, even with Video Assistant Refereeing, it can still come down to "human error"?!?
    I am shocked, shocked that technology has not cured everything.
     
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  13. pena pirata

    pena pirata Member+

    Sep 28, 2013
    Batavia
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I thought Soldier Field was supposed to fix the Fire?
     
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  14. The human error was calling the foul in that spot in the first place. If no foul was called maybe VAR doesn't get involved. Even if the ref looks at the play again it's doubtful he thinks he missed that call the first time. Once the foul was called then the question of inside/outside the box is fair game. VAR takes the discretion away from the ref in judging whether the severity of the foul warrants a call as harsh as a penalty.
     
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  15. GHjelm

    GHjelm Member+

    Apr 23, 2008
    Batavia
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    After some angry drink related reflection. This game was actually very promising. Literally everything went against us that could possibly go against us on the road and we still almost won. I think this core, especially when we can drop Gimenez and bring in a goal scorer, will be very good next year. It sucks to have another "rebuilding" year, but at least we can see the foundations be laid.

    Teran looked great. Fede will be a baller. Torres looked great. Shakiri played like the top payed player in the league. A lot of positives from that game, just not the final score.
     
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  16. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    That is a very big "when," more of an "if," really, more of a pipe dream, but I agree.
     
  17. Fede hasn't been good this year. Gimenez has been better, but as much as we need a finisher our central midfield is a big problem. Pineda can't plug every hole on this team.
     
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  18. milicz

    milicz Member+

    Dec 2, 2001
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    I don't generally blame the refs, but the Fire scored 3 legit goals but were awarded 2 while Toronto was gifted a goal in a non-foul. Bad reffing took this one away from us.
     
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  19. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    The two games in NY-ish were promising as well.
     
  20. Pennsylvania Dave

    Jul 31, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I agree it was an error to call the foul but regarding the VAR part I disagree in wondering what the object of VAR is in the first place? Where in the rule book does it say a referee has to escalate the offense after going to VAR? I mean if the object of VAR is to "get it right" then why doesn't the VAR guy say in the referee's ear..."Hey, I think this is not a foul but it's also inside the penalty box so you might want to rethink this?" The referee can then obviously choose to award the penalty kick or hopefully say "Hey...I screwed that call up." and restart with a drop ball. Or if he knows he f**ked up just go with awarding the free kick outside the box and secretly hoping nothing game changing results. I still say the WORST refereeing is making a questionable call that alters the result of the game. I'm not talking about obvious fouls or infractions but calls like this AND that hand ball the last game AND the questionable red cards we've seen and...and...and... <sigh>
     
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  21. GHjelm

    GHjelm Member+

    Apr 23, 2008
    Batavia
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Bottom line. If they play like that, they're going to win more than lose.
     
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  22. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    The past 10 days says otherwise, but we can be Optimistic you are correct. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
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  23. GHjelm

    GHjelm Member+

    Apr 23, 2008
    Batavia
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    That means we're due! That's how odds work right?
     
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  24. skinut

    skinut Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2000
    Castle Pines, CO (or often elsewhere on earth)
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except for the Fire.
     
  25. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Accept the Fire.
    Accept the suck.
     
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