Selected World Cup 2022 Referees

Discussion in 'World Cup 2022 - Refereeing' started by SouthRef, May 19, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    I’m happy to see Jesus Valenzuela (VEN) on the list.
     
    frankieboylampard repped this.
  3. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Certainly disappointed for Jair Marrufo. Having come back for four more years and done all of the international work without the reward of any World Cup assignment has to be tough.

    But certainly happy to see Oliver, Martinez, and Barton get the call. I felt like Oliver deserved a spot even though Taylor is the recognized #1 in England.
     
    AlextheRef and frankieboylampard repped this.
  4. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    frankieboylampard repped this.
  5. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Katie Nesbitt ran some lines for me when she was a teenager is now my closest claim to fame.

    Those of us in Rochester are flipping proud of her today. Well Done to her!
     
    frankieboylampard and cleansheetbsc repped this.
  6. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Bummed out for Marrufo and Penso
     
    GoDawgsGo, Advantage and Dayton Ref repped this.
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So a couple "shakes fist at clouds" observations before I dig in to the names:

    1) Since the perceived debacle of 2002, FIFA has been dedicated to trios. Trios have worked. Trios have made things better. Crews have been announced as trios until very recently. This move, to just list names at each position, has no purpose (other than perhaps flexibility related to point #2 immediately below). The same goes for the refusal to designate "reserves" anymore (which is definitely related to point #2 below). For anyone who actually cares about the list, the lack of that categorization is quite frustrating. So I'm not exactly sure what the point is of doing it this way.

    2. And now, perhaps, an impolitic comment on the appointment of female referees. It's 100% a PR move. The women selected in the "referee" category were not designated for a single "top" men's qualifier. They were not, to the best of my knowledge, appointed to major (or any?) top-level continental club knockout matches. Frappart has the Super Cup, some second tier qualifiers, and UCL group stage matches--there are at least 10 male referees who are clearly ahead of her in UEFA, if not 20-25. From a pure fairness question related to performance, it doesn't pass the smell test. And then there's the issue of her being the second French referee when Cerro Grande and Gil Manzano can't get into list. These appointments just don't pass any reasonable objective test. I am all for female referees refereeing alongside men in men's competition when the spot is earned. Penso has earned hers in MLS. Frappart hers in Ligue 1. Etc., etc. But plucking a mid-tier Ligue 1 referee into the men's World Cup doesn't meet that standard. It doesn't come close. And Frappart is the best known referee of the three.

    On the AR side, at least Nesbitt was in a crew (or crews) working the top men's matches in her confederation. Same goes for Medina Diaz. To that extent, at least they were competing on the same level as other candidates and one can plausibly say they earned their spots.

    With that out of the way, some first thoughts on the names (and I'm sure I've missed something):

    AFC
    No Sato, who we thought would have been locked in. Perhaps people saw that game we noticed a few weeks ago? It also means no male Japanese for the first time in... a long time. Yamashita goes there to represent Japan, though my gut is she's there as a fourth and will not whistle. No Shukrallah, as I guess three Arab referees was perceived as too much? @Mikael_Referee will surely have insight here, as he will elsewhere.

    CAF
    Gassama and Sikazwe both go back, which is noteworthy. Glad for Sikazwe, though the light will shine bright on him. Shocked Gassama gets another turn. No Tessema, given his performance at ANC, seems to be the disappointment here. And at his expense, N'Diaye is there, who I have felt was terrible in the past. Ghorbal and Gomes seem to be top two referees here, but prior experience might tilt assigning priorities in a different direction. We shall see.

    CONMEBOL
    So the Argentina and Brazilian races were solved by sending both from each country. I don't rate Sampaio and haven't seen enough of Tello, but glad Claus and Rapallini are there. Breakdown of assignments for them will be quite interesting.

    OFC

    No surprises here. Hope Conger gets a good match to start.

    UEFA
    Lots of big news here. Oliver and Taylor both getting in might be top. Mateu winning the Spanish race is probably next. No Cakir is important to acknowledge, though I suppose expected. Kovacs rising to get his spot had to be expected given the last couple months, but definitely a surprise before that. Ignoring the Spanish referees for a moment (which is hard to do, but bear with me) the name that probably sticks out the most as an omission is Soares Dias, which is totally fine with me. I don't think you can complain about this list IF you concede Cakir wasn't getting picked and FIFA had to take Frappart... unless you're Cerro Grande or Gil Manzano, of course.

    CONCACAF
    So all three Central Americans make it. I suspect one is reserve but, as I shake my fist at clouds I note we won't ever know that for certain until after the group stage is over. That said, Escobar has zero Guatemalan ARs with him. So maybe he's low man on the totem pole? Of course, Barton and Martinez only have one AR each--why bother with trios, after all?!--so it's really difficult to make any conclusions. I presume Nesbitt slots in with Barton, but that's just a guess.

    Elfath over Marrufo is no surprise. Ramos getting his spot back seems like the default position where FIFA landed by the end of qualifying. No room for Marrufo on the field then. That also means no room for Frank Anderson, who we should acknowledge here, too. Of all the AR candidates from the US, he's probably the best performing and would have been a returning WC official... yet, nothing. It's a cruel game.

    On the VAR side of things, great that Fischer got in--I think that became expected. Villarreal's name is jarring, though. It means he got in over Marrufo AND over Penso, who was on both Olympic Gold Medal matches. I genuinely don't know where that comes from. Penso over Marrufo would make sense (based both on ability and, perhaps, Marrufo's political stock at FIFA). But Villarreal, who doesn't do VARing as much as Penso, comes out of nowhere to take that spot. I can only think it's to give him the WC experience with an eye toward the on-field position in 2026. Nothing else really makes sense there.

    VMOs OVERALL
    24 individuals selected as VARs/AVARs. Looking at the list, I think you have 13-14 who could act as main VARs on a meaningful match, so it looks like the pool is expanded from where it was in 2018. How much FIFA actually trust some of those names--such as Fischer, for example--is something we'll have to wait to find out.
     
    allan_park, IASocFan and RedStar91 repped this.
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, just noticed something that should have been obvious... no English VARs!
     
  9. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Gil Manzano is 38, so he still has 2026 to hope and aim for. Del Cerro Grande is 46.
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FELIZ Raymundo Helpys (DOM) is listed as an AR.

    So is ZEEGELAAR Zachari (SUR).

    Do we know who they are tied to? There is a long CONCACAF tradition of making sure a couple random ARs from the Caribbean get to the World Cup. I thought it died out, but it seems to have re-appeared.
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cerro Grande, Cakir, Karasev, Hategan, Tobar, Shukrallah, Sato, Marrufo and Tessema are probably the names that can feel the most hard done-by or surprised given the published list.

    From what was already known and what I've been reading this morning, Cerro Grande is probably the only one of those who likely went into the last two days possibly expecting his name to be announced as a referee. That, coupled with his age and the fact that he hasn't gone before, probably makes it the worst for him.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also I'm realizing that Juan Carlos Mora of Costa Rica is usually with Barton, I think. So Barton has a full trio. That would mean Nesbitt would have to slot elsewhere. It also implies, to me, that Barton is the "top" Central American.

    Of course, if only FIFA published the sets of trios we wouldn't have to guess any of this.
     
  13. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Do you think this move away from announced trios was necessary with Covid given I'd imagine whatever risk might occur if one member of a crew got covid and the chances that it might cause a whole crew to drop?

    Of course, the way the referee's are housed at these events, I'm not so sure that matters either. I'm just guessing at motivations.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm a cynic, but I think a lot has to do with not demonstrating the women are there as "reserves." Frappart, Yamashita and Mukansanga have no ARs there. If any work, it will be because a crew gets cobbled together (or maybe Frappart uses Turpin's ARs?). But if you listed trios right now, all three would be categorized by themselves without any ARs.

    That said, I do think Frappart will work one match. So while I'd classify her as a "reserve" in some regards, I think FIFA is making too much of a deal of this to not assign her once--probably in a matchday 3 match that is meaningless or a matchday 2 one that doesn't seem risky.
     
  15. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Couple of thoughts from my end, although not as eloquent as @MassachusettsRef

    International refereeing is just a cruel and ruthless business.

    Cakir doesn't get the international swan song that his career really deserved.

    I think we all saw it coming, but I was, still, holding out hope that he would get in.

    It is just so difficult to go out on top and on a high note at this level. So many great referees never get to write there own endings. That's why it is so great to see the likes of Kuipers or, Mallenco (on a lesser stage) go out on top.

    Regardless of what you think of Marrufo, you have to feel for him. Did he deserve to get all the second and third chances that he got in his career, especially, after some of his early MLS fiascos? Personally, I don't think so, but he did make the most of it. I've never been a fan of his refereeing, but his style is very successful is exactly what FIFA wants.

    He was too young and not ready to be a candidate for the 2010 World Cup. I, personally, don't think he should have seen the field in 2018, but once he did, why string him along and only to pull the rug out of him at the last minute?

    I thought he really deserved to go this time.

    Can someone explain to me the logic of having two referees from Argentina, Brazil, and England? That's 6 referees from three countries that are good bets to get to the semi-final.

    Is this just FIFA starting early for 2026 where the number of teams and matches will make it a necessity to have multiple referees from the same country?

    Or was as it, partially, due to politics? Taylor and Oliver are so good that you kind of almost have to take them regardless of the rest of the field. The fact is the UEFA field is kind of weak at the moment. You also had Cakir eliminated himself because of his temporary ban in Turkey. Karasev was persona non-grata due to special military operation in Ukraine. All those factors gave FIFA an easy out to put Taylor and Oliver.

    Was Argentina getting two simply down to the Falklands War? Basically, the Argentine FA said, "if England get's two referees, we should as well" I can definitely see that conversation happening. Argentina will never allow an English referee to referee an Argentina match due to the Falklands WAr.

    And if Argentina gets two referees, then Brazil must surely get two referees as well? Or am I just completely far off?

    For the longest time, it was practically impossible to have two on field referees at the World Cup. Mexico broke that in 2006 (partly due to US Soccer's total incompetence). They came back in 2010. Then US Soccer got two (partially with Marrufo's one game) in 2018.

    Yeah, the women referees are just a total PR stunt. If UEFA didn't have the "courage" to pull the trigger and give Frappart a group stage match at the Euros (which is a much more forgiving format that you can afford to put a lesser referee) how will FIFA be able to throw Frappart or anyone else in a competition with far less room for error?

    Every group stage match (unless it's a match day three dead rubber) carries greater weight as only two teams can advance from a single group where in UEFA three teams can go in most cases.

    Also, UEFA actually had kind of a plan and was kind of laying the ground work to have Frappart appear at the Euros. FIFA appears to be doing no such thing. They also have totally boxed themselves in with the way they have announced everything. They now HAVE to use a female referee in the middle where UEFA gave themselves much more wiggle room. If they don't it's gonna be a huge mess.

    I don't understand the Villarreal VMO appointment at all. He's not a great VAR and he doesn't have that much experience and his communication in English isn't the greatest.
     
  16. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Spain with the most (3).
     
    frankieboylampard repped this.
  17. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Isn't she the second Rochester woman named to a (W)WC?
     
  18. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    I don't know of any other who have actually gone to a WWC. So, as far as I know, she is the first Rochester woman to go to a WWC (France) and now the first US Woman AR to go to a MWC, and certainly the first Referee of any type to go to the MWC from Rochester/WNY that I'm aware of.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oliver going comes down to Collina, from what I've been told. Rosetti loves Taylor and Collina loves Oliver. Both had to go. I suspect both would have gone even with Cakir and Karasev on the list. Though, at that point, how FIFA would have pulled that off and kept Frappart is quite the puzzle.

    I don't think the Falklands comes into anything. Argentina had two, if not three, WC caliber referees. If past performance of English referees helps the case of Oliver and Taylor, surely past performance helps the Argentinians.

    For Brazil, from what I understand no one could decide and Seneme brought both over the line. I think this is one of the last decisions that was made.

    Good point about UEFA laying the groundwork for Frappart and FIFA doing no such thing. Frappart, after all, easily could have worked a men's match in Tokyo.
     
    allan_park repped this.
  20. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    coulda sworn there was one from Churchville-Chili area. Maybe she was just high level and never made it to a cup.
     
  21. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    We have had one other FIFA AR - Amanda Ross. She didn't make the world cup, but she did become an Econ professor for Univ. Alabama, so, ya know... not too shabby.
     
    IASocFan and cleansheetbsc repped this.
  22. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #22 JasonMa, May 19, 2022
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
    Nitpick, coming from the PacNW. Often the arrangement on a totem pole carries no significance, and in the times it does the highest honor is usually considered to be at the bottom, supporting everyone else.
     
    Law5, Thegreatwar, roby and 2 others repped this.
  23. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    He is fluent in English (and Spanish).

    PH
     
  24. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    My bad, or more like my mother-in-law's bad. She knew I'd be interested that someone from her town has gone pretty far.. I knew she made it up pretty high.
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I went back and looked. All three female referees went to the Tokyo Olympics. That list was billed as gender-neutral. And then... not one of them worked a men's match.

    So not good enough to work a men's U23 match when in competition with a group of 14 men (6 of whom then didn't make the World Cup), but good enough for the World Cup itself. Checks out.

    I now remember thinking Frappart would get a game on the men's side and being surprised she didn't. So perhaps I should recalibrate my thinking here.
     
    StarTime and IASocFan repped this.

Share This Page