2021-22 England Referee Assignments and Discussion [EPL/EFL/Cups+][R's]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by code1390, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My word, Gallagher twists himself in knots trying to defend the yellow for Kane. The commentators are better at citing the Laws than him at times. Gallagher is flat-out saying that Kane only escaped a red card because Robertson took evasive action to avoid serious injury. That should be astounding to anyone who hears it. Whatever happened to punishing "the nature of the challenge?"

    At least he had the penalty right, though.
     
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  2. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    But Harry Kane is the England team captain. :rolleyes:
    Anyone remember what happened to the referee after Alan Shearer got sent off several years ago?

    Or how many times did Jordan foul out?

    PH
     
  3. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    He is an expert in this by now. He does it almost every week to defend the PGMOL.
    He should probably run for Parliament. He would do just as good a job as many of the rest of them in explaining away the various issues of the day. :D

    PH
     
  4. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I think the days of referees (and umpires) with personality are over especially as the older guys retire. Would Collina’s death stare fit in today?

    I go to a lot of NHL games. When Wes McCauley retires, there is nobody who is second. Baseball, the same.
     
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  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I noticed the same in the NHL, though admittedly I've paid much less attention to the league in the past 6-8 years. It's going way back, but I think the mandatory use of helmets and the switch to a two-referee system both play a role at the beginning of this transition or evolution. But, yeah, even McCauley doesn't strike me as a unique personality in the way that Fraser, McCreary, McGeogh, Koharski and others did.

    Anyway, I think your conclusion is correct--at least at the moment. I wonder if the pendulum ever swings back, though. I'd also say that soccer, with one referee who is orchestrating the whole event, seems like one of two major sports where the big personalities can still fit. The other is rugby, where from what I observe it seems like they still exist at the moment.
     
  6. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I don’t know the all the necessary parts that go into making a stadium VAR ready, but with many millions at stake in the Championship playoffs you would think a way could be found to get it up and running at the 4 semifinal sites?

    in todays match, there was a shout for a penalty after :08 seconds, and the one later in the half. Neither given, and I think first was borderline, and may have been sent down.

    BTW, since the playoff final is at Wembley, that match will have VAR.

    Robert Jones is the referee.
     
  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Yellow would be fine in my opinion. Giving such blatant penalties would be a start mind...

    VAR would definitely not intervene in either scene (in PGMOL)!
    Both clips here: https://streamable.com/x0gcwd
     
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  9. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Ron Luciano....anyone! :)
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    The problem this is that IF he does get to the ball it is 100 % obvious opportunity. But the reason we aren’t certain is because the defender took that away. He stole the opportunity. We shouldn’t go looking for reasons to bail him out. This was a pretty obvious goal scoring opportunity in that everyone watching is thinking he’s probably going to score here. But the chance is taken away by a foul. I think you could go either way here. A red is certainly defendable and probably more equitable.
     
  12. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Pawson doing well with the Cup Final.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A red is 100% not what FIFA or any other governing body wants. That’s not a red card by any current standard or instruction. .

    We can’t just make things up. Potential headed crosses like this are almost never red cards. You’d need near certainty the header would be made and controlled to put on goal. There’s nothing close to that here. We don’t even know if the attacker will head the ball, never mind be in the right position to head it well.

    The logic you’re applying would expand the definition of DOGSO beyond all current recognition. It’s not a question of IF he could get to the ball or not. We have to KNOW he would get to it and be able to control or play it, if not for the foul.

    The defender stole an opportunity, yes. An opportunity to get to the ball. He didn’t steal an OGSO because the likelihood of being able to play the ball can’t just be an “opportunity” in itself; that component has to be certain.

    I also disagree with the more casual observation that everyone thought he would probably score here. Headers like that go awry all the time—even at the highest of levels and from the best strikers.
     
  14. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Quite a busy 19th minute for Oliver at Goodison Park. Massive shirt pull against the Everton #7 in the attacking PA, followed by a red seconds later on the subsequent Brentford break the other direction.

    Not sure how VAR can say that shirt pull was not a clear and obvious error.
     
  15. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    Richarlison holding the defender’s shirt probably helped.
     
  16. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    What are we doing here.
     
  18. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    No-one is supposed to get sent off in the FA Cup Final!
    Or the MLS Cup Final. Nor usually in the WC Final (I know there are exceptions here). It spoils the occasion, don't you see?
    It's a condition called "finalitis" and many referees get it during these matches.

    BTW, Rondon was sent off for a very similar tackle in today's Everton v. Brentford match, which was Everton's second red card of the day.
    But it was only an EPL end of season game, not a big occasion.

    PH
     
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  19. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    and the Everton tackle was in slow motion (lumbering). It was such a bad tackle that I cannot believe a professional footballer would make it!

    Btw, Liverpool gets all the calls! :whistling::whistling:
     
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  20. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Except if the England captain does a flying two footed tackle into the shin of the Scotland captain! (Kane of Spurs against Robertson of Liverpool).

    (You must have been listening to Guardiola! )

    PH
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Worth acknowledging Oliver got that SFP (and the DOGSO one) in real time without VAR intervention. It would have been hard not to have gotten the second one, of course. But we've seen some bizarre hesitation on potential SFP cards, so credit where it's due, particularly after I mentioned it has seemingly been awhile since an SFP card was given on-field without VAR help.
     
  22. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Matchweek 37 midweek

    Southampton - Liverpool
    Referee: Martin Atkinson. Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Richard West. Fourth official: David Coote. VAR: Stuart Attwell. Assistant VAR: Adam Nunn.

    Everton - Crystal Palace
    Referee: Anthony Taylor. Assistants: Gary Beswick, Adam Nunn. Fourth official: Kevin Friend. VAR: Mike Dean. Assistant VAR: Eddie Smart.

    Aston Villa - Burnley
    Referee: Paul Tierney. Assistants: Lee Betts, Simon Long. Fourth official: Craig Pawson. VAR: John Brooks. Assistant VAR: Sian Massey-Ellis.

    Chelsea - Leicester
    Referee: Stuart Attwell. Assistants: Dan Cook, Dan Robathan. Fourth official: Andre Marriner. VAR: Lee Mason. Assistant VAR: Matthew Wilkes.

    Nice penultimate match in Atkinson's career, with Attwell in the video booth before his own match two days later. Everton with a top two referee in consecutive matches.
     
  23. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    "Big" matches:

    Leicester - Man City (Community Shield): Tierney
    Tottenham - Man City: Taylor
    Arsenal - Chelsea: Tierney
    Man City - Arsenal: Atkinson
    Liverpool - Chelsea: Taylor
    Leicester - Man City: Tierney
    Tottenham - Chelsea: Tierney
    Chelsea - Man City: Oliver
    Arsenal - Tottenham: Pawson
    Liverpool - Man City: Tierney
    Leicester - Man Utd: Pawson
    Man Utd - Liverpool: Taylor
    Leicester - Arsenal: Oliver
    Tottenham - Man Utd: Attwell
    Man Utd - Man City: Oliver
    Leicester - Chelsea: Tierney
    Liverpool - Arsenal: Oliver
    Chelsea - Man Utd: Taylor
    Everton - Liverpool: Tierney
    Man Utd - Arsenal: Atkinson
    Leicester - Tottenham: Pawson
    Tottenham - Liverpool: Tierney
    Liverpool - Leicester (EFL Cup): A. Madley
    Man City - Leicester: Kavanagh
    Leicester - Liverpool: Marriner
    Arsenal - Man City: Attwell
    Chelsea - Liverpool: Taylor
    Chelsea - Tottenham (EFL Cup): Pawson
    Tottenham - Chelsea (EFL Cup): Marriner
    Liverpool - Arsenal (EFL Cup): Oliver
    Man City - Chelsea: Pawson
    Chelsea - Tottenham: Tierney
    Leicester - Tottenham: Moss
    Arsenal - Liverpool (EFL Cup): Atkinson
    Liverpool - Leicester: Kavanagh
    Man City - Tottenham: Taylor
    Chelsea - Liverpool (EFL Cup): Attwell
    Man City - Man Utd: Oliver
    Man Utd - Tottenham: Moss
    Arsenal - Leicester: Taylor
    Arsenal - Liverpool: Marriner
    Man Utd - Leicester: Marriner
    Man City - Liverpool: Taylor
    Man City - Liverpool (FA Cup): Oliver
    Liverpool - Man Utd: Atkinson
    Chelsea - Arsenal: Moss
    Arsenal - Man Utd: Pawson
    Liverpool - Everton: Attwell
    Man Utd - Chelsea: Dean
    Tottenham - Leicester: Moss
    Liverpool - Tottenham: Oliver
    Tottenham - Arsenal: Tierney
    Chelsea - Liverpool (FA Cup): Pawson
    Chelsea - Leicester: Attwell

    Distribution of these matches in the EPL:

    Tierney: 9
    Taylor: 8
    Oliver: 6
    Pawson: 5
    Attwell: 4
    Moss: 4
    Atkinson: 3
    Marriner: 3
    Kavanagh: 2
    Dean: 1
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, barring a surprise home loss for Chelsea against Leicester, there will be two completely "irrelevant" matches Sunday: Chelsea-Watford and Leicester-Southampton. Every other match, to some extent, factors into European places or relegation. With the Arsenal-Everton match being the one that could have implications on both ends of the table if Everton doesn't win midweek.

    Given how they are playing and what's at stake, Leeds away to Brentford might be the one that needs the steadiest pair of hands, honestly. Very intrigued to see who lands there. I think, in some order (because all this is debatable), your five biggest matches are:

    Arsenal-Everton
    Brentford-Leeds
    Burnley-Newcastle
    Liverpool-Wolves
    Man City-Aston Villa

    Norwich-Spurs matters, of course, but that's two clubs going in opposite directions and from a resource allocation perspective, I don't think you can presume it needs one of your best referees.
     
  25. allan_park

    allan_park Member

    May 15, 2000
    I know, and understand, how balu classifies these games, and I know that we have had these types of discussions before.

    But, this time around, the classification of Chelsea v Leicester as a "big" match is a little bit of a stretch.

    In fact, from a league and Referee perspective, I would say it's actually the smallest of the four Matchweek 37 midweek matches noted above.
     
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