US Open Cup 2022

Discussion in 'Referee' started by gaolin, Mar 22, 2022.

  1. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    So I'm away from my computer so not able to get clips but all are available on ESPN+. I did catch some incidents.

    Orlando City vs Tampa Bay
    - Tampa Bay coach was red carded for coming onto the field to kick the ball back in the last few minutes because the Orlando player clearly kicked the ball away and did not get carded for time wasting and Tampa Bay coach was clearly frustrated.
    - The Tampa coach clapped at the referees as he left and then went to the stands.
    - Security got involved with the coach who told him he had to leave
    - Coach receded further back into stands

    Rochester New York vs FC Motown
    - One of the softest penalties (if you could call it that) awarded in the 78th minute
    - Two red cards to same team. First red was a 2CT -- fully deserved. 2nd was a straight red for VC. Guy bumped into other player, lost his footer and swiped at the back of his head. Straight red.
    - Rochester keeper comes off line too early during PK shootout in 3rd to last kick. Yellow card.

    Sacramento Republic vs Central Valley Fuego
    - Penalty in the 90th minute for Sacramento which.. I'm having doubts on.
     
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  2. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ca
    Cant take all the credit. I was AR2.
     
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  3. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You got some really good TV time, though…..
     
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  4. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    If I may add to the clips - here is one from a grassroots game in Germany, SPA vs. DOGSO. What do you think?

    https://streamja.com/rOJK2
     
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  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Presuming it's a clear foul (one look by video at distance always makes that hard, but it sure seems like a foul) I think it's DOGSO red at any competitive/skillful level about younger youth. It's an open net with a free header from 19 yards away; a player could either head it on goal or take a headed touch toward goal and have a contested shot for an open net at absolute worst. I also would say that the fact it seems to be a deliberate foul from behind that results in a DFK instead of a PK sort of tilts any balance toward DOGSO for me, even though there's nothing in the Laws that say it should.

    Regardless, presuming this is a decent level of amateur play, I'm surprised to see only yellow here in this clip.

    Less skillful matches is where this becomes a challenge because the actual likelihood of scoring from there in that spot from, say, a 13 year old kid or a 45 year old beer-league player diminishes greatly... but the visual of the open net and a deliberate foul is still there.
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Everything is here, though if ESPN ever learns it will be taken down for copyright issues:



    Both reds look good, though the first one is choppy in presentation and I would have liked the free kick to go the other way on the second one (better to sell the retaliation aspect of it and, well, more correct, too).

    Penalty, on benefit of replay, certain looks soft because the attacker is clearly starting to drag his foot before contact. That said, he does barge into him more on the back/hip than shoulder. The very, very muted protests here is sort of a window into what the players expect. This is one of those that is distasteful at the professional level but probably something that amateur players feel is either deserved or well-earned by the attacker. In this hybrid competition--particularly where the match is broadcast but there's no VAR--who knows what the right call is, but it did seem to be accepted here.

    Separately, I saw the very late 2CT red card against Inter Miami and it was good. Still would love to see the final five minutes of the first half because that aspect of the box score really stands out.

    Still think the penalty for Detroit and the lack of a red is what stands out for me in this round. Clip should be available off this page. https://www.mlssoccer.com/competitions/u-s-open-cup/2022/matches/detvsclb-04-19-2022/
     
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  7. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    Was there a previous warning given? I didn't see one but hey I'm a ref so...
     
  8. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Yeah it's on there. Defender does a horse collar tackle around the attacker's neck 8 yards from goal, and looks to have injured his own ankle while doing the tackle (or is just faking to get out of a clear penalty). Definitely surprised the ref obviously saw it so gives the PK but doesn't give the DOGSO red with the guy's arm that high up and visible.
     
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  9. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    No.

    There were myriad issues with the way the KFTM were administered in this match. Suffice it to say, the KFTM procedure is just another pitfall for referees to step into on USOC matches if they're not doing them regularly and not reviewing the process.
     
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  10. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Two reds in 65' in the Inter Miami vs South Georgia Tormenta for what was, as best as I can desribe, out-of-nowhere wrestling match. A clear foul and two other players get into it and the Inter Miami player shoves the Tormenta player into a headlock while the Tormenta player is going for the throat...
     
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  11. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    So in other words, just a casual Tuesday evening USOC match

    Here's video https://streamja.com/w2MG1. Is Erling Haaland moonlighting as a ref?
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Have we seen any video the Tormenta player "going for the throat?" I don't see it above or on the MLS site, and I think that's what the Tormenta coach was complaining about. Seems like one of those very weird incidents where one player completely provokes another and the violence is heavily on one side, but the referee has no real option except to send both. Of course, if there is a throat grab it's way cleaner and far more justified. I just don't see it from available evidence. Seems more like a player defending himself and then it inherently reaching the point of "violence" because of the grappling on the ground.

    Caveat to all of the above that maybe (likely?) there was something going on in the rest of this match that would prompt this, because this isn't normally the type of behavior you'd see from a first division professional whose team is up 2-0 in a cup match.

    Only other thought is the presentation of the reds could have been a lot better and more professional in its own right. But I guess, in a similar vein, the first time someone sends off a player at this level might be a little nerve-racking.
     
  13. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    That's from what I heard the coaches say but yeah, I can see how you can be pigeonhold into that.

    I saw the whole match and by all accounts, the referee Alejo Calume, the match was well officiated with no spark between either side about impending doom. No hard fouls. No controversial decision. It just sparked...

    Also, Nima is doing the USOC game Houston vs San Antonio and is opting to wear his FIFA badge in lieu of his USSF badge. :)
     
  14. nylaw5

    nylaw5 Member

    Jan 24, 2002
    West Coast
    "Also, Nima is doing the USOC game Houston vs San Antonio and is opting to wear his FIFA badge in lieu of his USSF badge. :)"

    FIFA Referees always wear their FIFA Badge when refereeing unless it's a rare instance where competitions ask you not to (some NCAA matches). They would never wear a USSF badge if they were in the middle of a game while they were on the International Panel.
     
  15. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    This offside call that nullified Nashville's tying goal is completely baffling. As bad a miss as I think you'll see at this level
     
  16. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Thanks, I didn't know.
     
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  17. balilla

    balilla New Member

    Mar 7, 2013
    Is Nima the only PRO whistle working this round? Most others seem like PRO2 or lower.
     
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  18. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Coincidentally, the latest PRO video has several cases in which a player coming back from an offside position interferes with another player.

    But if that’s what the AR saw, wouldn’t it be better to call impeding?
     
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  19. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    [​IMG]

    Loving the clashing kits.
     
  20. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Here is a full clip of this play



    There is a Nashville attacker in the top corner that is in an offside position before the ball is in play

    [​IMG]
    But here is his position when the ball is kicked.

    [​IMG]
    The AR was surely thinking that the offside position player interfered with the progress of a defender to have a legitimate chance to defend that cross, which is 100% correct and could have been commended. But the issue is that by the time the ball was kicked, he was actually onside by a few yards.

    So while it is definitely a missed call, I do not think it is as egregiously missed as someone assumed above.

    Also, I had to go into Reddit's soccer board to see this get posted and my eyes are bleeding again from their lack of knowledge about the offside law.
     
  21. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    It blows my mind to see this in a game of this level. I had a similar but even worse clash last month, a black home team vs. a burgundy (more burgundy than this) visitor. I get that they may not be exactly the same but why even bother taking this chance? Have Sacramento wear their away jerseys.
     
  22. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Seems like it -- yes. A few USLC referees getting their MLS v MLS debut whistle, however.
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ignoring whether or not it was a foul for a moment, having a hard time understanding how San Jose’s penalty wasn’t also DOGSO.
     
  24. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    #124 gaolin, May 11, 2022
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He’s whistled and fully pointed before the ball is even headed. Kind of hard to say it was “taken back!”

    And for the record, I see nothing controversial here. That’s a foul.
     
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