Ref shortages this year

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Beau Dure, May 22, 2021.

  1. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    They don't have my sympathy:

    1) Many coaches are expecting a crew of Chris Penso/Corey Rockwell/Adam Wienckowski and some would still complain if they actually had them. The reality is that most are Grassroots referees with varying degrees of experience. If 99% of the matches someone does are club level, the pace of the older age divisions will be overwhelming.

    2) I've had several referees claim they've told their assignors they're no longer interested in doing these games:

    a) As of a week ago, one crew told me they've waited 7 weeks for payment for matches in which they showed up and no one was there to tell them it was canceled. Many emails have gone unreturned.

    b) It still takes over 2 weeks to get paid, which is absurd.

    c) Reality set in for many when receiving their tax documents in mid-March from them (which is ridiculously late) that there will be a paper trail for any earnings above $600.

    d) Payment is comparable in our state to doing club level games.

    Some folks, who have zero ambition of being a PRO referee and want to be paid in a reasonable timeframe, have come to the conclusion it's not worth it.
     
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  2. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia

    It was well done, but I am the skeptical type. They had a referee killed there 10 years ago and didn't care back then. My suspicion is someone's kid on their Board or someone who had connections got harassed or physically threatened and took the initiative to put it together.



    I was on the Board of Directors for a program for many years. Some of the comments on their "Q & A" were similar to our parental consent form and I knew only 1% of people actually took the time to read it. I needed it in there for legal reasons in case anyone claimed "discrimination" towards them for any ramifications for doing something stupid.

    After one or two cases where people were given long bans from being on the sidelines (which was nowhere violent or bad as the ones you see on You Tube), word got out and we never had to deal with these issues again.

    I had an opportunity to officiate this spring with someone who is on a board. I asked what they were doing with these parents and coaches who are going nuts and any ideas to retain the existing referees. The answer I got was "Well, this is a nationwide problem and not isolated to any one sport. Anyway, I'm here to officiate this game". o_O:speechless:

    Great attitude. They don't want to accept that they are complicit when they stand by and do nothing. I did everything I could to make referees be and feel appreciated. Even though this is obviously a sign of worsening behavior in society outside of soccer, If there were consequences for poor behavior, the numbers might be somewhat reversible.
     
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  3. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    From my experience with MLSN, they have no issue treating the refs like crap. No extra pay or even a thank you for having to do a game solo or with only two. Late payments. U13-14 pay not really worth going out of your way to deal with them. Trying to assign games quite late, like less than 2-3 weeks before, when most our leagues have self assign open for a month. Not to mention the big tournaments where they openly proclaim how they will give you no amenities, no reimbursements, and treat you like crap. But hey, they can get away with it due to their prestige and the ambition of many of the refs who do the games, so why not.

    As for number 1, I've always thought it would be funny to see a ref with a PRO badge do a game like that and still get complaints.

    And 2c, why are your refs are holding it against MLSN that they have to pay taxes over $600?
     
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  4. soccerdad72

    soccerdad72 Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Apr 5, 2021
    Sending out 1099s in March is illegal. It’s required to be mailed by February 1st by the IRS
     
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  5. Barciur

    Barciur Member+

    Apr 25, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    I always find it fascinating to see the differences in regions. Here, we get league assignments at most 2 weeks out, often less. MLSN game I received an assignment 3 weeks before, and that is the furthest out assigned game I've had for all of May. :) Also, I have never had self assign anywhere here. Also, MLSN is the most paying, even at U14 level, from all our leagues around. So, as usual, YMMV.
     
  6. RefGil

    RefGil Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    When our state assignor for these games put a list of demands for what we needed to do to be considered for these, we did a small dance of glee. "Ok, I won't do those things, and so I won't have to decline the assignments". So far, so good.

    Not saying the demands were unreasonable, but it was nice to have an honorable "out".
     
  7. RefGil

    RefGil Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    I do a fair amount of HS, and I've had a fairly low bar for bench dissent since John Bieniewicz died. When a coach starts yelling at me or my crew, at the next stoppage, I stop the clock, have a quiet chat with the coach, which ends with something along the lines of "Coach, this is a scholastic match. If you disagree with a teacher by standing on your chair and yelling your displeasure at them, there will be consequences. The consequence here is that you are being cautioned for dissent. Please don't have me come back again for this discussion." I then show the yellow card and go restart the game.

    Over the past few years, I have averaged slightly more than 1 coach caution per game. Sometimes only one coach gets a yellow. Sometimes both. Sometimes and assistant decides to join the fun. Occasionally, I get through a game without a bench card. I can only remember one coach who didn't get the hint, and had to get DQed for 2CT.

    Now, I don't hear so well, so it does take some effort for the coach to get a caution. But they've obviously trained themselves that what they need to do to be a "good" coach is to yell at the referees.

    So far this spring, as the CR, I have yet to have to issue a bench caution, other than for illegal equipment. As an AR, I have had my CR toss a coach for F/AL, but as the Center (and I think I've done about 15 Varsity, 20 subvarsity, and 5 Middle School games so far this season), not a peep from the coaches about the officials.

    Correlation does not imply causation, but I'm hopeful that either they've gotten the message, or, at the very least, that they've gotten *my* message.
     
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  8. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    or your hearing has gotten that much worse

    kidding

    Hope it's a trend of adults acting like adults.
     
  9. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Hmm. That is not quite accurate. They have to pay taxes on all income. All the 1099 does is make it hard to cheat.
     
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  10. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More likely than not, you won't get a 1099 if you make less than $600. That doesn't mean you shouldn't file, but the paying company isn't required to send you a 1099 in those situations.
     
  11. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just so people don't think that we are advocating tax fraud: you are required by law to pay tax on all your income. Companies are only required to send you tax forms like a 1099 if you make $600 or more. However, companies are required to send you those forms by end of February.
     
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  12. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When it comes to advanced notice for assigning, my HS assignor has to give the most. Here, the HS season starts at the beginning of September. Our assignor wants our availability by June 1 and we usually get our assignments by July 1! That was better than our previous HS assignor who would get us our assignments around August 21.
     
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  13. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I’m writing a story that includes the Utah policy.
     
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  14. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Something I completely overlooked is that this is UTAH. UTAH of all places. Not California. Not a Southern or Northeastern state with those sports psychos. New York. Boston. Texas. Louisiana. Florida.

    U. T. A. H. Literally the ONE state I would assume would never do something like this.
     
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  15. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Per capita we have (or at least used to have) the highest participation of youth in soccer
    It’s quite remarkable how many clubs are out here and how many kids play given the size of the metro from Ogden to provo
     
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  16. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I am a HS assigner. Because of the scheduling problems that schools have (dates, times, locations…is there anything else) I put out my schedule in 3 week chunks. Anything else and I’m spinning my wheels.
     
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  17. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    1. So far, I've found that the coaches are generally more concerned about their own teams. Very liittle blowback on the matches I've done. As the assigning was done regionally last year, assignors seemed to have little knowledge about the refs they were assigning. Luckily in our area, the list was generated by a bit of a who-do-you-know group and our matches were either staffed by experienced refs or young guys really interested in getting better.

    2. Payment has been on the every other Friday as promised. So yes, two weeks, but it always has shown up the 6-7 times I've done matches. Compared to the NEAL (Northeast Academy League), these guys have their act together. NEAL took 6 weeks to pay.

    2. Yes, something is wrong with their ability to mail out 1099s timely. But better to mail them late than not mail them at all (which is a harsher penalty).

    And yes, the rate of pay for this level of match is not great compared to other area leagues (especially for a center doing the u-17 and up), but the matches are usually much better than local leagues, so if you enjoy refereeing, a trade off in monetary compensation may be acceptable once and a while.
     
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  18. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    According to our HS assignor, we are required to let schools know the officials for all their games before the season begins. They know there will be changes, but the assignments do need to be sent to the school in advance.
     
  19. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    Our coaches would completely lose it when we give the preseason report that at least half of their games will be uncovered. That’s especially true if that deadline applies before scrimmages begin. I think we sign over half of the refs between the start of scrimmages and the start of district play.
     
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  20. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    Am I the only one? If I get assignments longer than 4 wks away I generally turn them back, especially if it’s a weekend. I just don’t know what I’m doing that far in advance
     
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  21. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I did 240 minutes of reffing yesterday in less than six hours. Two U-10 games, two U-14 -- the first of which featured dozens of 50-50 challenges that made it difficult for me to parse things out and try to calm both teams before they started knocking each other around *without* going for the ball. (The *second* game was the one in which I showed a card to a guy who fouled someone off the ball early in the second half and then absolutely whomped someone with no intent to play the ball with a couple of minutes left.)

    I know some people do this routinely, but I'm definitely not in shape to do it. By the end, I literally couldn't command my legs to pick up the pace and get within 30 yards of the play on the endless array of counterattacks and direct balls.

    I did it, of course, because our assignor reached out to me personally to take the U-10 games.

    Got through it, but geez, we could use some more refs.
     
  22. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    U14 boys might be my least favorite age group. There is such a disparity in size and physicality.
     
  23. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    United States
    Jan 14, 2019
    For me, fall HS starts mid/late Aug and is being fully assigned right now. It will change a bit of course,.but unless we've blocked days in Arbiter, we'll have games and are expected to cover them unless something unexpected arises.

    For area youth Rec and Travel leagues, we're lucky to get assignments 3-5 days out, so I don't religiously hold my calendar open for.them even though I usually provide season availability long before then. If they assign early, I'll commit early. If everything is going to be at the 11th hours, that's gonna go both ways...
     
  24. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    I was AR on a BU14 game today.

    It was pretty good until the last 15-20m, by which point the larger kids decided that it was their time to try to take liberties with the smaller.

    Choppiest last chunk of the game. Sigh.
     
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  25. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    Four weeks? Most of our college age refs turn them back if more than two weeks out. I prefer four weeks or more.
     
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