Here's what I mean by "reverse influence" ... U-19 boys rec. Attacking player gets stripped of the ball and commits a clear retaliatory foul. Not violent, but also not subtle. In a split second, I consider a YC. But then the defending player's teammates all start yelling at me for a card. I find up lecturing the offending player and letting him go. In retrospect, I realize I had a subconscious thought that I did NOT want to give a YC because I didn't want to appear influenced by a bunch of people yelling at me. So ... was that impulse wrong? Just to be clear -- this was a borderline YC for USB, and it was this player's first foul. I don't think it's an egregious decision to keep the cards in my pocket. (Same game -- my first YC for delaying a restart! I warned him, and he continued to move at glacial pace.)
If you were watching the game on tape, what would your decision be? Just from your description, "a clear retaliatory foul" seems like it should probably be a YC. So by attempting to show that you are not influenced by a bunch of people yelling at you, you were influenced by a bunch of people yelling at you I think there are two interpretations for giving a card (or any decision) after it has been called for by players: You are easily swayed The players were calling for a card because it was deserved If you are confident in the rest of the game, I don't think anyone will bat an eye for issuing a YC for "a clear retaliatory foul". I have done the same thing before, but I think it is a bad habit. I used to do it a lot for minor decisions like ambiguous throw-ins when I thought there might be some gamesmanship. But over time I think it has caused me to make more bad calls than good ones. If I saw what happened, even if not sure, I try to stick with my gut. If I didn't see what happened, I'll try to go with what the players decide. (This is for 1 or 2-man games, of course.)
If you’re having these kinds of questions my advice would be, stick to the considerations. Was the foul careless, reckless, or excessive? Did it stop a promising attack? Did the player have an opportunity to play the ball? When making decisions using considerations you’re likely to arrive at a more consistent conclusion. As you get more comfortable, you can start making adjustments for level of play, player expectations, etc. Consider the other viewpoint. By not giving the yellow, you potentially missed giving a card that everyone expected. That erodes your credibility. Make your decision, and don’t listen to players and fans to tell you if it’s right or not
There are also management techniques and tactics to publicly dress-down the protesters--either before or after you give the caution--that can convey to everyone that you had the caution the whole time and were not influenced by them. It also serves as a warning to not continue with that sort of preemptive dissent on subsequent incidents.
Over a decade ago, I've done it in a college game (before IFAB allowed cards to coaches) with a coach who, as I was starting to move toward a, opposing player to show him a card for what we used to call "tactical foul", started screaming about his demand for a yellow card (multiple times), so then, I stopped what I was doing and came to the coach and said, "I was going to give him a yellow card, but now I can't, because of you." He didn't like that and demanded to know why and I explained that if I give a yellow card now, all that everyone on the field will take away from that is if I yell at the referee loudly enough, he will do what I want. I did not want that outcome for game control. He then said, well what if you give him a card and you give me a card. But by then, I was on my way back to the original player to tell him he got off the hook this time, but anything else, and there would be consequences. 10 minutes later he had a simple trip and I booked him then. Sometimes, you have to manage the entire game and part of that means knowing how your actions will be perceived in the context of what else is going on. This was extremely unorthodox. It worked on that day, and if the offense was reckless I wouldn't have done it that way. Still, the coach stopped that nonsense real quick and the other coach didn't start up. Take that for what it's worth while recognizing such an action really isn't supported in the rules/laws and probably shouldn't be repeated by anyone. LOL.
On "wafflers" I have on rare occasions told opponents that they make it harder for me to give a caution if they start screaming about it. But I definitely agree it is a bad idea to "get talked out of" giving a needed card to make the point, as it can create further problems. I like the process @MassachusettsRef notes above as it is a way to better stamp control.
I heard a ref one time: "Would you at least give me a chance to get the whistle into my mouth?" People were in an uproar about a foul that they thought wasn't going to be called.
It was irrelevant that it was his first foul. If you don't provide a caution, you risk ANOTHER retaliatory foul for not punishing the first one. Since this was a recreation game, you got away with a potential problem. I can assure you that if the match was club level or above there was a better than 50% probability of the players taking it on upon themselves to get even for a failure to caution here. We've all been "talked into" or talked out of a caution. I don't think this was a case where it's a consideration.
Not much to add here but to remind that gesturing for a card is specifically mentioned in the laws as cautionable when done by a team official. But if in this case, if you caution, get your money’s worth. If you don’t it’s still a good time to isolate the player and manage (i.e. ass chew) him.
I hate this idea that if players are calling for a foul/YC/RC/penalty/etc. and we call it (potentially after some few second delay to think about it, wait and see for advantage, etc.), then somehow we are being "influenced" to call it, rather than calling what we see. Like we aren't allowed to agree with the offended team that an offense was committed against them just because they recognize it as well. If I have a player/coach who starts accusing me of this, I immediately talk to them, basically asking rhetorically if now I'm not allowed to call fouls/give cards I was going to call anyway just because the fouled team asks for one? Then I wave them away. See this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. You were going to give a player a caution for a tactical foul. The coach recognized it was a tactical foul and calls out for a card. But now you "can't" give it just because the coach is asking for what you were going to give anyway? I don't buy this. Your decisions shouldn't change just because offended teams are asking for the offense to be punished in a way you were going to anyway. This can potentially now cause game management issues down the line. I say this usually AT LEAST once a game, as I employ the "wait and see" method on quite a few fouls every game. The immediate WHOA HEY yelling and arms in the air from the entire team on every foul is nonsense. This is exactly why I keep my yellow card in my front shorts pocket. Extremely easy access. If I'm planning to give a caution out, I'm barely done finishing blowing my whistle with my left hand before my right hand already has my card in it out of my pocket by my waist. I have had many times where a reckless or SPA foul occurs on the bench side of the field and before the coach is even done yelling "REF WHERE'S THE YE-" I say "coach, look at my hand" pointing, he looks down, "oh ok thank you".
Yep, this just happened to me in a U15B EA game this weekend. I was AR2, AR1 was a very experienced ref who does (good) teaching at halftime/full time to the refs on the crew. 20' in, clear reckless foul occurs in front of me, fouled player down for 15 seconds. I'm repeatedly tapping my badge. CR sees me but doesn't even talk to me, tells players "it was an accident" and doesn't caution. Rest of the game has quite a few hard challenges/tackles, and when he gives a YC for a hard slide in minute 60-70, I see the YC'ed player point to the spot where the YC he didn't give happened FIFTY minutes earlier, clearly asking him why that one wasn't a card but he just got one. End of the game, the AR1 nicely but more or less teaches the CR that it was his fault the game started getting out of hand, mainly due to his lack of giving that initial YC that I told him to give that led players to start playing in a reckless manner. He said he didn't want to give it because it was "too early" and he didn't want a chance of giving a 2CT too soon for it. The guy was clearly very afraid of giving cautions out at all.
I think the highlight of my career was when I was doing a U16 MLS Next match. At HT, the away coach (out of state) accused me of favoring the home team. My AR1 shut that accusation of cheating so quick with such elegance and prose that would make Hemingway blush that I wish I could hear it again. That AR1 was the SYRA. He's the best.
Hey, that's why refereeing is so interesting to me. There are many ways to deal with things. On the day, it worked like a charm. No management issues after that. The coach and I even chatted about it as we were leaving the field and had an understanding. So yes, it could have caused management problems down the line, sure. In this case, it got the coach off my back and made management easier. Go figure right?! As to your quick trigger yellow card. Good for you to be that confident about yellow cards! I have taken to deliberately doing things to slow myself down so I force myself to process, like wearing a wrist lanyard and keeping the whistle in the same hand that I'll pull the card with, just to give me an extra second. But that's me. We're all different.
There seems to be no winning when it comes to this sort of thing. My first ever center ref assignment a couple weeks ago (U12 NPL), I had a slide tackle from behind, pretty clear YC, but I pause for a few seconds before pulling a card. I can hear the opposing coach yelling that it's a card. I glance over at my experienced AR, who is tapping his pocket and I go give the yellow to the player and, naturally, I hear a couple parents yelling, "Way to let that coach influence you!". Ugh. For what it's worth, the player I gave the yellow to pretty much just looked at me and nodded. He knew it should have been a card.
I had a game where a player committed a pretty easy reckless challenge. Before I could pull the yellow, I was surrounded by teammates of the fouled player, demanding a card. I basically told them that they had just talked me out of the card I was going to give with their behavior. I've regretted that action ever since. I should have carded the reckless tackle AND picked one of the surrounders and carded him as well. You can't let someone get away with a reckless challenge on a high level boys game, or an adult amateur game, with consequences. Bad things happen. And you need to stomp out the "surround the ref" nonsense that they see in the pro/international matches. "Not today, son."
I think you are missing OPs point. He knows that you shouldn't let this happen. Indeed game management is at the core of the problem. He is looking for ways of dealing with the situation. And, a quick Yellow from the front pocket is not the solution, as the situation arises from those cases when you are waiting or thinking... If you are near the coach and he is the one yelling for the card, you can not give it and tell him its because of hiis behavior -- not a satisfactory solution as the perp walks. If it is the players on the field, its tough, because its hard to make the problem go away by engaging them. Then, if the other team reacts by saying you caved, that is also tough, since the peanut gallery is usually at a distance and mostly anonymous... I'm still waiting to hear MassRef's advanced techniques referenced, but not disclosed.
I think it's worth pointing out that up to certain levels--both age and skill--parents, coaches and most of the players are (relative to "soccer IQ") idiots. Full stop. So, until you reach those thresholds, no amount of advanced refereeing tactics is going to solve the problem in these sort of situations, as you suggest here. But, on the other side of the equation, there are either skill levels or simply age levels (any adult amateur that is competitive, really) where the players rightfully expect certain decisions and most of the participants (barring fans at professional matches) are on the same wavelength with maybe an outlier here or there. That's where this type of stuff is important and can do wonders for both match and player management. And there's no right answer. A quick card isn't universally good, nor is the more English-style of always talking, recording and then showing the card. Different situations call for different approaches and the best referees can change gears seamlessly while always maintaining a sense of control and authority.
This This scenario doesn't sound like one where it's fully applicable, but I like to get my yellow card out early for any SPA or hard tackles to let the fouled team know it is not going to just be a foul. It doesn't fully mitigate, but it tends to trim down the crowd of players to those that are going to yell anyways and then you can have that conversation of respectful dialogue vs dissent. Along those same lines, a hard whistle and then shouting the players number to pull them aside (even if you aren't going to caution) has helped me deescalate situations like this. It also allows for the game to breath for a few seconds, the acknowledgment that the restart will be ceremonial, and making it known that the offending team isn't just getting off scot-free. Of note: I've seen some Emeritus referee's around my area actually caution both the player who committed the foul AND the dissenting player(s). If the dissent was strong enough, or persistent enough, they've turned the direction of the restart around. That's.... not a route I'd go, personally, but to each their own I guess.
For what it's worth, after years of sitting on the sideline as a parent, I've learned (with an experienced ref) the tell-tale signs of whistle volume, from regular foul to a warning up to a card. Even from other fields, I'll hear a really loud whistle and turn around just in time to see a card being shown. The whistle, used properly, is a powerful tool. ...and I'm nowhere near experienced enough as a ref to get that part of the job down yet...
All about context. Certainly not the right answer most of the time, but (as @RefGil suggested above) there is a time and place for it depending on the nature of the dissent. I've never done it, but would have no hesitation in doing it in the right context.
Thanks, everyone. This is a terrific discussion, and I’ll follow the advice to deal with the foul and the dissent separately if this happens again. For posterity’s sake - no one made the physical card gesture, so that wasn’t an issue.
I absolutely understand how pulling a card out too slowly or not at all can absolutely create unnecessary tension/anger (waiting to see if you pull it) or management issues down the line. But can you guys help with what management "downside" there is to a quick card and when it might be bad to do it? Just that players/coaches assume you didn't have time to process it and may be incorrectly giving it? Because when I'm giving a card I pretty much know right away, so I don't really see a point in meandering around creating that "unknown" about if I'm going to give it or not, which creates the exact issues we have been discussing ITT.
The hard ones are where a center pulls out a yellow and the AR or 4th has red. Then you’re in a tough spot. An example: I was 4th for an ECNL or whatever league game last fall. This was the third game of the day so the crew, who had been on all 3 games and rotating through, were tired. The last one happens to be a u16 game with two of the top teams in the division and, we found out later, had had issues earlier in the season. the center had started as 4th, did AR, and now was center. He was a college kid that was fit but doing the u19 line previously - my center where he helped me a ton - had worn him out. He said it coming into the game and at half said he was cramping a bit. second half, game tied, hard foul near midfield opposite side of the benches. He goes with just foul and talking to and the player who suffered the foul is livid. Not 2 mins later a 50/50 in roughly the same area happens and that player goes in hard for a tackle (ball at feet) but leads with elbow to the back of the other players head. Very hard, intentional, violent, arm as a weapon not a tool. Center does hard whistle but was focused low on the tackle and just has a yellow out. His angle (not where he could see between the players) doesn’t help either. AR1 on my side and I look at each other and both go “he missed the elbow”. There is a semi mass con (whatever you would call that) that the center and AR2 are breaking up so AR1 and I start making our way across the field to help after making sure there are no issues on the bench side. we talk more, agree it should be red ejection for SFP or VC (take your pick) and I make my way over and AR1 goes back to his line. this is all of 45 seconds, maybe a minute, but in that time the caution has been shown and both sets of players separated. With my information the center pulls back out his yellow, waves a no sign, and then pulls out his red and sends the kid off. Which then lead to the “why are you letting him decide” arguments.
In MBB leagues, I actually find that I can slow down, isolate the perp, talk him down a little, and then show the card. They see that method often enough on TV that they are OK, and everyone knows the card is coming out eventually, Maybe because they've all seen *me* enough that I have a little credibility. Random teenaged boys, that's another story. I need to have the card out, saying "I got him. I got him. Relax. Let me take care of it" to prevent hi-jinx and hilarity.