2022 USL/NWSL/MLS Next Pro Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by gaolin, Mar 21, 2022.

  1. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Gee Beau, thanks for proving us with a link for the play :rolleyes:;). On the bottom of this post is the play being questioned at the 1:58:46 mark.

    Yes, it was a hand ball missed. The NWSL does not have VAR. We've seen much worse missed in MLS on PRO's "Inside Video Review" each week . The analyst goes into her predictable rant about the league's officiating and that her 3 year old would have seen it.

    FWIW, the corner was taken on the wrong side.

    BTW, I could care less it was Rapinoe who is griping since that's all she does her whole life about every imaginable topic.


    []
     
    Beau Dure repped this.
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #27 MassachusettsRef, May 5, 2022
    Last edited: May 5, 2022
    I think the expectation is that gets called because the arm is away from the body at the moment there is contact. But if want to really dig in here, her arm seems like it is in a somewhat natural position as she jumps toward the ball and then the skip on the surface makes the ball go someplace she isn't expecting it to go and she tries to react by getting the arm out of the way and it all goes wrong. Visually, this does scream "penalty." Really digging into it, I think it's a bit tougher call between unnaturally bigger and natural position. And, though it no longer matters, I don't think you can make a case this was a deliberate handball. But yeah, ultimately I think it's a penalty at the professional level.

    Regardless of all that and irrespective of who the players are, I always find it amazing when a team so passionately wants a call that came out of absolutely nothing. Like... that ball is going to do nothing other than go to the goalkeeper or get cleared by a defender. There isn't an attacker in the same zip code as its destination. But a ball hits a hand and players feel entitled to a game-winning penalty out of a garbage corner kick that happened to skip weirdly on the ground. And then harangue the referee over it. I shouldn't be surprised, but the lack of multiple dissent cards there is disappointing.

    Anyway, this isn't really a refereeing thing, more just a general "get off my lawn moment." I get vociferous protests over borderline (or completely missed) physical fouls. Or handballs that stop promising opportunities. But this niche area where an unlucky bounce leads to a potential PK and players lose their minds... it's bemusing to me. I know players want to win at all costs, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.
     
  3. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Maybe the ref decided that time was up a split second before the ball struck the hand. Lol
     
  4. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Good one.

    On a serious note, the ball went out of play at 92:50. I wish he had just blown the whistle seconds later despite the caution and substitution done during stoppage.

    Instead, Rapinoe is taking forever on the corner kick, repeatedly moving the ball around the arc looking for a nice piece of grass to place the ball without a worry in the world. The referee actually has to blow the whistle at 93:30 to say "let's get going".
     
  5. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    It would defy expectations at the professional level, but I've never had any qualms about killing the half on a CK where the team is messing around instead of taking the kick. But I don't recall ever seeing a professional game ended with a CK pending.
     
    frankieboylampard repped this.
  6. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m personally of the opinion that this sort of play was presented on the other option during the collective bargaining agreement. So it can’t be called here.
     
  7. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    You have so perfectly summed up the craziness of this situation. I know that the opportunity denied by this handling isn’t really a consideration for handball or not but the punishment would certainly not fit the crime in this case.

    FWIW, someone who was there said it came off the hip first. I can’t tell for sure. She starts with her arms up and I don’t see a secondary motion. Females brace their bodies like this commonly so I’m ok with the no call. I get that most fans and players in the world would expect this called and it’s probably easier to call then defend why it’s not.
     
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  8. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    No penalty decision on the second half, technical area cinfrontation and at least 3 serious injuries in the NWSL challenge cup final...
     
    rh89 repped this.
  9. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    You got a timestamp on the no call?

    Also is it strange that the same referee gets the final twice in three years?
     
  10. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    67:02

    If the referee had the performance grades to earn it and no conflicts with the teams, I don't see any issue in general.

    Here's the reverse angle
     
  11. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    We’ll, she got o the ball, so it can’t be a foul, right? :rolleyes:
     
  12. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Ref made what I would have thought a smart run initially to get a good line on the space between the players, but the angle closes up at the end and she has a blocked view on the point of contact... Unlucky all around. In hindsight staying central would have worked better here, but hard to predict just where/how this challenge will come.
     
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  13. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    She’s the best fifa official eligible for the match. I know Penso is in some unprecedented water but nobody else from MLS is working NWSL.
     
  14. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shouldn't the AR have a great angle on this?
     
  15. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    It would be a better view than the referee had, but the tackle came from the opposite side so it would not be easy for the AR who is sprinting to clearly see the point of contact cleanly particularly at full speed and with the movement of the ball. The best viewing angle is from where the camera was and where only an AAR might stand which we don't have in the USA.

    This particular play provides a strong argument for VAR which NWSL should only consider after they can start paying their players and officials better wages.
     
    15 to 32 repped this.
  16. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    The NWSL has many hurdles to cross before VAR is possible. This was the final of an In season tournament and had the benefit of more national attention. The majority of NWSL games are 4 camera crews which means a good angle for C&O will almost never exist. Ask the ARs who never have a supporting angle for any of their decisions each week. And from PROs perspective, the MLS is still likely one of the better leagues at VAR. I’m not sure they want to stake their reputation on the topic in a league that could not possibly implement it with the same rigor as it is in the MLS.
     
    RefIADad and MassachusettsRef repped this.
  17. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    I agree, but first among these is paying the people more only after which should they begin looking at equipping stadia with VAR gear and expanding PROs VAR program.
     
  18. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Which presupposes generating enough revenue to be able to pay them. I think any glimmer of VAR is a long way off for the NWSL.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do we know what USL Championship revenue/profits looks like compared to NWSL? Because if VAR comes into the USL Championship before NWSL, good luck to USSF in its management of that political fallout (particularly since it will have no real say or role in the matter).
     
  20. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    The only other way it could be fine is riding on the coattails of mls infrastructure but not every team plays at an MLS venue where the tech is already set up and tied into Atlanta control center. But not every team plays at an MLS venue, and there would still be the need to pay video operations people as well as the VAR and AVAR, in addition to some camera ops.

    End of the day, unless NWSL is suddenly flush with cash, I just don't see how it can afford it, even if it tied itself to MLS's infrastructure.
     
  21. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    USL Championship
    Hartford Athletic vs New York Red Bulls II
    Trinity Health Stadium (7PM ET) on 5/14/2022
    REF: Jose Carlos Rivero
    AR1: Zeno Cho
    AR2: Alexandru Focea
    4TH: Christian Centeno
     
  22. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is he coming back off of an injury?
     
  23. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    His last PRO game was in November 2018.
     
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  24. jdmahoney

    jdmahoney Member

    Feb 28, 2017
    Plymouth, MN
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Saw this and also thought it was noteworthy. Anyone know of any potential implications? Is he trying to work his way back to an on-field role in the MLS?
     
  25. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    If Rivero somehow makes it back to MLS (which from this assignment appears to be the goal), that would surely be some kind of record between middles in MLS or really any major professional league in the world.

    How many referees go between four or five years between middles in the highest domestic lead?
     

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