The current state of our youth national teams

Indeed.

I don't obsess about it any more. I did 15 years ago, and then realized I was wasting emotional energy.

I'm actually not worried about 98% of these dual-national going to Mexico youth camps. I worry about the one or two that I think might have "difference making" potential. And I don't really worry about it until they're getting to cap-tying time. So Ricardo Pepi was one. Jonathan Gomez is another.

Alex Mighten is a left winger in the Championship. Our starting left wingers play on Champions League-caliber clubs. Pulisic at Chelsea, Aaronson at Salzburg, etc. We also used Konrad de la Fuente there early in the cycle, who at the time was getting action for Marseille?

So is Alex Mighten, a 20 year old that has 1 goal and 1 assist for a Championship club............."difference making" for the USMNT program. No. Am I really supposed to get myself worked up over the fact that Berhalter hasn't taken a picture with him and a jersey. I'd say the same thing about Cade Cowell. I like Cade Cowell. If he chooses to play for Mexico, what difference does that make to the US program? I don't get the angst.

That doesn't mean I don't want players like that in our pool. Of course I do. I want our pool as deep as possible. But hell, there are only so many opportunities and our pool is getting deeper and deeper and deeper. Joe Scally doesn't yet play for the USMNT, and I'm supposed to be upset that Julian Araujo chose Mexico? Cuz I'm not..............

 

People just don't want them to play for Mexico as much or more than they want them to play for the United States

 

I'm at the point where I like the fact that players developed in the US are so coveted by Mexico. That -- as much as any youth result -- shows how far we've come. I've also resigned myself to the fact that a decent chunk of these players will choose to play for Mexico. There will be a couple in there that sting a little, but, oh well, it's not like there aren't other prospects who are plenty capable to fill in to that spot and take advantage of the opportunity.

I don't think it will be anywhere close to the 90% of Mexican-Americans who have the choice will go with Mexico number, either. The tables are turning, and most of these guys will go with the option that promises the most a.) opportunity, and b.) success.

If you were 20 and had the choice, which group would you be most excited about playing with: Pulisic, McKennie, Reyna, etc. (all young guys at top clubs) or Lozano, Lainez, Alvarez (some young guys who are surrounded by lots of older players who are past their prime)? Assuming the opportunity is equal (invites to both senior national teams), I think it will be a pretty even split -- if not a lean toward what is familiar (meaning where they grew up) -- among those who have the choice.

 

What I have heard anecdotally in the past, but am now seeing vividly, is that U.S. Soccer is competitive with international teams at the youth levels, but we start to fall behind after U17. If you take data points like the recent Generation Adidas Cup tournament, there is no doubt MLS academies can be extremely competitive with top international U17s. But, the "reservoir" that the German coach references begins to dry up after U17 because of the structure we have in this country. There needs to be a pyramid, for sure, so not all U17s can keep playing at the most competitive level, but if you drop from a full U17 roster to only continuing to play 1-2 homegrown signings per year, that is too significant of a drop-off. Yet, that is what we are largely seeing with MLS Next Pro.

MLS Next Pro should have been a continuation of this pyramid. More heavily weighted towards U18/U19/U20, fewer above those age groups. Yet, the opposite is true for most MLS Next Pro teams so far, and we are 1/4 of the way through the season. Some teams are finding room for 1-2 younger homegrown signings to make their way onto the field here or there, but that is about it for the most part. If I am missing something, I would love to be wrong about this.

I have heard multiple GMs of top MLS clubs proclaim "we know who has a chance to be professional by U17". The problem is that they are largely identifying players by U15, and they develop tunnel vision and become committed to their investment in those 1-2 players per class. And, they are more often than not wrong about those players.

Yes, we develop a deep reservoir of talent. But then, we don't maintain it, and we allow it to evaporate. MLS Next Pro was supposed to help fix this. So far, it has not.

 

USSF is not a business and its primary concern is not making profits. At least in theory.

The relationship with SUM is not over yet. SUM is just a shell company for MLS owners. MLS has employees on the USSF board, controls a large share of the voting, and pays the salaries of multiple Athlete Council members. We all know all this. We all know that if SUM was opposed, USSF would do nothing. It is not even controversial.

 

I would bet that USSF gets a fee for sanctioning the game. FIFA did not set this system up for such fees not to be a part of the system haha. USSF has to sanction EVERY game inside its Federation. B team friendlies against club reserve teams would need sanction. These are A team international friendlies, yes, they have to be sanctioned.

Of course the ICC is sanctioned. Every game is sanctioned. U14 travel teams down the street are sanctioned. ICC is in court because USSF would not sanction a game.

Of course Mexico benefits. But how does the US benefit?

 

MLS has employees on the USSF board
Don Garber

controls a large share of the voting
14%

and pays the salaries of multiple Athlete Council members
2 and a bit out of 22

Tell me where these MLS shills are:


USSF Board
President
- Cindy Parlow Cone
VP
- Bill Taylor (Idaho youth)
CEO
- Will Wilson (ex SUM)
Adult Council
Richard Moeller (Florida SA)
John Motta (New Hampshire SA)
At Large Rep
John Collins (Lawyer)
Athletes
Chris Ahrens (Para)
Sean Boyle (Para)
Dr Nelson Akwari (ex MLS 60 apps)/mainly USL, works at Boeing)
Nicole Barnhart (coach, NWSL PA)
Lori Lindsey (NWSL announcer)
Oguchi Onyewu (ex MNT, sports performance)
Danielle Slaton (ex USWNT, TV analyst)
Independent
Juan Uro - (accountant)
Lisa Carnoy - (CFO at consulting firm, ex Merrill Lynch)
Patti Hart - (CEO, gaming technology firm)
Pro Council
Don Garber (MLS)
Garrison Mason (USL)
Marla Messing (NWSL)
Youth Council
Mike Cullina (academy head)
Michael Karen (American Youth Soccer Org)
Dr Pete Kopfi (youth soccer, surgeon)
Tim Turney (Olympic development)



Athletes Council
Chris Ahern
Nelson Akwari
Danielle Slaton Albers (Quakes part-time announcer)
Nicole Barnhart
Sean Boyle
Matt Freese
Brad Guzan
Kevin Hensley
Smith Hunter
Ali Krieger
Mikey López
Nick Mayhugh
Alex Morgan
Oguchi Onyewu
Nick Perera
Brianna Pinto
Becky Sauerbrunn
Lindsay Tarpley
Yael Averbuch West
Megan Wharton
Lynn Williams

 

That's not true. There are 24,000 USSF affiliated clubs in the US and a lot more that aren't affiliated.

The USSF won its case against Relevent because it was following FIFA regulations barring regular-season league games from being played outside of home countries.

 

Both Dest and Musah were asked to go the U21 route before the senior team.
Both declined and took the express route with the USA.

Are we going to force Slonina to go the U21 route?
If he had no other choice yes, but because he is a dual, no. We need to keep him even if it forces us to sacrifice our third-best GK.

 

Of course fees from sanctioned events come back to the organization in some way. After all, the USSF has to raise funds in order to operate somehow. Shouldn't they get a cut of the extremely lucrative business of soccer in the US in order to ensure that they can oversee it's management and growth?

Then again, why is that a bad thing for the US to host Mexico games? There are, in fact, many ways that the US could benefit from allowing the FMF to host games here. First and foremost, yeah, it's a money maker. But, it also helps grow the game by bringing it to an obviously thirsty fan base. Cultivating as much of a soccer culture in this country as possible is a good thing, even if that allows a couple of dual nationals slightly easier access to a playing opportunity with Mexico (more than likely, it actually doesn't impact a player's involvement with Mexico one way or the other). These games also create media opportunities and economic impact in local markets that are good for the game. They can help develop a relationship with FMF that might could lead to some opportunities as well.

I guess my point is that it doesn't always have to be the USSF corruption line... Can we stop with that?

 

Dest played on the U20 team so this is not true.

And we don’t actually know when it comes to Musah what the discussions were.

 

MLS and USSF have a good relationship because it’s in both their interests to have a good relationship. It’s not because MLS controls USSF. They did have a financial interest when they had the deal with SUM but that’s gone now. But there’s no conspiracy theory as to why the relationship is important to both parties.

 

Musah played for England U18s in November 2019. His next international was for the USMNT in November 2020.

 

Obviously USSF has a vested interest in the success of MLS and I'm sure a professional major league CEO on a board full of volunteers has a huge influence.

But suggesting that MLS controls USSF through a voting bloc is patently wrong.

Liga MX has 55% of FMF votes which maybe explains why they're under- performing.

 

I'm talking about the non-USA nations that wanted them.

 

It just comes down to this.

FANS think of Mexico as "the enemy." I think MLS, SUM, owners, USSF, etc. see Mexico as a potential gold mine and partner. Soccer in this country is a rising tide that they hope lifts all boats.

I also think that people who rage against these Mexico youth camps held in the US don't live in places like Texas or California. Every day is a Mexico youth camp in DFW. You're not accomplishing anything by preventing the FMF from holding an official national team or youth camp in Dallas.

I like Berhalter's approach to this. He comes across as being "on the side of the players." He seems to tell them to explore all options and see where they fit better. That strategy seems to work with players like Pepi. What is actually accomplished by preventing or hindering players from exploring a Mexico option (Or a Poland option. Or a Canada option)? I don't think that makes you look good in the eyes of the players. Whatever Berhalter is doing is working. He's retained the overwhelming majority of the "difference making" dual-nationals this cycle. It doesn't matter if you retain some 18 year old Mexican-American in the FCD or LAG academy if you can recruit a 19 year old playing for Valencia. Yunus Musah is the superior player.

I have some level of faith regarding Gomez and Slonina. I'm not particularly worried. And if they choose not to play for us, am I supposed to get angry about it? Why would I want a player to represent the USMNT that doesn't want to play for us?

 

No need to dig that deep, brother. I'm sure there are plenty of more recent examples of my cluelessness and gullibility.
I'm not sure what you point is though. Should I have learned to trust the process? Trust the fed? Is a thread entitled "state of our youth national teams" reserved only for full throated endorsements of Chicago House?
Where do you suggest I learn more? I can't wait until I have the knowledge to allow me to see how the Fed's handling of the USYNT the last four + years was actually a brilliant plan.

 

You literally wrote that USSF wouldn't sanction the game. Whatever the reason (FIFA regulation or opinion), it was up to them. Like every game in the US. No doubt, most games at lower levels have the sanctioning delegated or by rule, if conditions are met. But they are sanctioned.

 

Yes I admit I may be wrong about that.

 

No not what ever, while I agree that some of this is business directed and inevitable we don't have to be complicit in making it easier. Some things should be off limits and having youth camps so our youth only have to travel domestically makes it too easy to sample the evil and deadly elixir.

 

Is it even possible to stop the FMF from having youth camps in the US? I doubt a kid going to a Mexico camp in LA as opposed to Mexico City is going to have much influence in his final decision.

I wouldn't call it an elixir, either -- that's giving Mexico way too much credit. It's just a drink -- they'll try theirs and try ours. Hopefully ours is better, but the player very well could be predisposed to prefer one before ever tasting them, too.

 

But you also leveled some things against the USSF that simply aren't true. Are you just going to ignore the facts and questions that were presented against these dubious accusations?

 

I don't know. You're probably right, but it just seems so dirty to me. I need to shower thinking Mexico is holding youth team camps in the US. Do you know of any other country holding youth team camps in any significant way, the way Mexico does in US. 2 bitter rivals. We should have a camp in Mexico and bring non Mexican, non-dual citizens in Mexico just to play with them. They can't stop us can they?

 

Just as dirty as us hosting YNT camps over in Europe specifically to target a lot of the abroad players and dual nats? Countries do this all the time, we just happen to have a huge Mexican-American population. If Mexico wants to have a youth ID camp here in front of literally every single MLS club scout and our YNT scouts then let them, if a kid stands out then call them into one of our camps. Mexico just did the job of bringing together a lot of the top Mexican American players in the country, and organizing it at the same time as Alianza (because the guy who runs Alianza is a Mexico scout) so all the MLS clubs and YNT scouting heads are there. If any kid gets called into a youth camp of ours now from this, it’s because they made the player so easily accessible to be seen

 

So close but not quite. You're going have to prove countries do this all the time. Europe is not a single country. No country that I know of has had a youth camp in another country eligible for both countries, particularly its arch rival. Argentina have Brazilian youth camp for Brazilian-Argentinians? Germany have any youth camps in France for players eligible for France also? Turkey/Germany? In Africa? Russia/Ukraine? Algeria/France?
You're trying to explain to me why Mexico does it. I know why they do it, I just don't like it.