i didn’t see second half because I had to go referee, but I will agree with you. The chasm is wide between top and next tier. i have the second half on the DVR but I won’t be watching.
100% red card. Beckham got sent off in WC v. Argentina for something much less violent. Although Richarlison should already have been on a YC for his playacting and timewasting in the first half. He would fit in very well at Atletico Madrid when he is sold after Everton can't afford his wages when they are in the Championship. PH
When will we get to see the "special relationship" where PRO and PGMOL trade refs to take each others' matches? Throw the lower level EPL refs on MLS matches and the top PRO officials on EPL matches and see if results change Do it you cowards.
Well, I just did! VC is VC, even though many people at the time thought Beckham's red card was somewhat severe, given the theatrics of, eeerrr, oh yes, Darth Vader himself. The real difference is the current poor level of officiating writ large in EPL that we and many others harp on about every week, not different interpretations of VC. In fact many observers of the game think that there was more tough tackling allowed 25 years ago and that it has currently gone soft. Remember the karate kick to the chest in the WC 2010? This coupled with one of the poorest referees of a poor bunch (for this level) is where the problem was. Has anyone ever seen Attwell have a good game, or even a partway decent one? Generally several inconsistent and sometimes bizarre decisions. And the players never seem to have confidence in him. I imagine the coaches must let out a sigh when they see he has been appointed to their matches. PH
An assistant referee had been (told he was going to be) sent home for not reporting a VC in his vicinity the day before; Nielsen knew what he had to do. Powers-that-be would absolutely lose their minds about that decision today! For heaven's sake, according to UEFA, not all headbutts are clear red cards nowadays! (eg. Turpin's red in Ajax vs. Valencia: "acceptable", not "correct").
I don't understand why players do this given the current state of the laws. It is so easy to take a guy out and at least give the appearance of attempting to play the ball. Why just pull making it clear you are not playing the ball and asking to be dismissed? Pull and go down towards the feet - you are going to get the assumption you were attempting to play the ball.
As I mentioned, at the the time many considered this fed card to be very harsh. And Zidane's headbutt, or Maradona's karate kick to the groin? Are these no longer clear red cards? If Richarlison had been sent off, it would clearly have been ruled at least acceptable. It was not in any gray area of interpretation. PH
I'm all for piling on Attwell as much as the next guy. He does seem to have nine lives and must have some pull with PGMOL. To say "has he ever had a good game?" is pretty harsh. Can anyone think of any referee in any major league in the world that has had a career like his? He is the perfect example of the Peter Principle in refereeing. Gets promoted way too early and, by all accounts, appears to be overwhelmed and out of his depth. Has controversial games with some of it just being down to pure bad luck. "Voluntarily" resigns or "drops himself" to the Football League. Begins the climb back up to the Premier League and get his FIFA badge back? It's practically unheard of. It would be like Juan Guzman coming back to MLS. He's not great and I imagine there are referees across England that curse the fact that he somehow came back into the EPL after the start he had. How many referees in England or in the US had some bad games early in their careers only to never get a second or third chance to redeem themselves? But it's not like he never has a good game. You're making it seem like he has no business refereeing at all in the EPL. Does he have any business refereeing Everton vs. Liverpool? That's a decent argument and a fair one. But can he handle Aston Villa vs. Burnley? Absolutely.
Everton did not make it easy for the referee yesterday. But, that’s why the referees get to have a white badge, because they can handle things like yesterday with all the diving, play acting, and confrontations, let alone the missed calls. He clearly did not handle those things well.
I did not say he has never had a good game, I just asked if anyone had seen one, because I have not. All his games that I have seen have some sort of issue, not just the routine ones that everyone has. It is often the same when he is the VAR. I can see selective appointments on "easy" matches for referees just coming into the EPL (or at any level) for a season or two. (BTW, I am not sure that your choice of Villa v. Burnley fits this criterion but that's a different discussion.) But there should come a point that after several seasons, which Attwell clearly has under his belt, a referee should be able to take any match in that league in a competent manner. IIRC, he was initially appointed to the FIFA list 14 years ago, (which is a very long time to stay on that list) well before Oliver and Taylor, but compare their trajectories as an example. They can referee any match in the EPL with confidence and do important internationals as well. I am not sure it is good practice to keep a long-term referee just for easy games. Those should be reserved for the newer referees. It would be interesting to find out what, if any, the "pull" you mention entails. I can't imagine most other referees being given this degree of support for so long. It is strange. PH
He refereed Tottenham vs. Manchester United very well this season. It seems like the very challenging Arsenal vs. Manchester City game set him off course, as from my anecdotal observations it seemed like he was doing quite well up to then.
When both teams and their fans (not to mention the various media pundits) have issues with the way the match was officiated it is a sign that there is something wrong somewhere. Especially when the referee first got that white badge in 2009. He's not a rookie. PH
Thank you. So one game? The exception that proves the rule! I think he is 39. That means he has lots of time, maybe over 10 years to improve! PH
@Pierre Head will be delighted to know that PGMOL have assigned perhaps the most crucial game of the FL Championship season, which will probably directly determine who is promoted to the PL with only one game left after that (Bournemouth vs. Notts Forest) to… Mr S. Attwell. No VAR of course either.
Matchweek 35 Newcastle - Liverpool Referee: Andre Marriner. Assistants: Simon Long, Scott Ledger. Fourth official: Andy Madley. VAR: Mike Dean. Assistant VAR: Darren Cann. Aston Villa - Norwich Referee: John Brooks. Assistants: Adam Nunn, Wade Smith. Fourth official: Martin Atkinson. VAR: Lee Mason. Assistant VAR: Stuart Burt. Southampton - Crystal Palace Referee: Jarred Gillett. Assistants: Lee Betts, Nick Hopton. Fourth official: David Coote. VAR: Peter Bankes. Assistant VAR: James Mainwaring. Watford - Burnley Referee: Craig Pawson. Assistants: Dan Cook, Eddie Smart. Fourth official: Jonathan Moss. VAR: Stuart Attwell. Assistant VAR: Marc Perry. Wolves - Brighton Referee: Simon Hooper. Assistants: Dan Robathan, Derek Eaton. Fourth official: James Linington. VAR: Michael Salisbury. Assistant VAR: Ian Hussin. Leeds - Man City Referee: Paul Tierney. Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Neil Davies. Fourth official: Robert Jones. VAR: Darren England. Assistant VAR: Gary Beswick. Everton - Chelsea Referee: Kevin Friend. Assistants: Adrian Holmes, Simon Beck. Fourth official: Andy Madley. VAR: John Brooks. Assistant VAR: Mark Scholes. Tottenham - Leicester Referee: Jonathan Moss. Assistants: Marc Perry, Timothy Wood. Fourth official: Graham Scott. VAR: Jarred Gillett. Assistant VAR: Gary Beswick. West Ham - Arsenal Referee: Mike Dean. Assistants: Ian Hussin, Darren Cann. Fourth official: Simon Hooper. VAR: Darren England. Assistant VAR: Matthew Wilkes. Man Utd - Brentford Referee: Chris Kavanagh. Assistants: Simon Bennett, Harry Lennard. Fourth official: David Coote. VAR: Paul Tierney. Assistant VAR: Sian Massey-Ellis. In one of his final matches, Dean gets to handle a club whose fans adore him.
"Big" matches: Leicester - Man City (Community Shield): Tierney Tottenham - Man City: Taylor Arsenal - Chelsea: Tierney Man City - Arsenal: Atkinson Liverpool - Chelsea: Taylor Leicester - Man City: Tierney Tottenham - Chelsea: Tierney Chelsea - Man City: Oliver Arsenal - Tottenham: Pawson Liverpool - Man City: Tierney Leicester - Man Utd: Pawson Man Utd - Liverpool: Taylor Leicester - Arsenal: Oliver Tottenham - Man Utd: Attwell Man Utd - Man City: Oliver Leicester - Chelsea: Tierney Liverpool - Arsenal: Oliver Chelsea - Man Utd: Taylor Everton - Liverpool: Tierney Man Utd - Arsenal: Atkinson Leicester - Tottenham: Pawson Tottenham - Liverpool: Tierney Liverpool - Leicester (EFL Cup): A. Madley Man City - Leicester: Kavanagh Leicester - Liverpool: Marriner Arsenal - Man City: Attwell Chelsea - Liverpool: Taylor Chelsea - Tottenham (EFL Cup): Pawson Tottenham - Chelsea (EFL Cup): Marriner Liverpool - Arsenal (EFL Cup): Oliver Man City - Chelsea: Pawson Chelsea - Tottenham: Tierney Leicester - Tottenham: Moss Arsenal - Liverpool (EFL Cup): Atkinson Liverpool - Leicester: Kavanagh Man City - Tottenham: Taylor Chelsea - Liverpool (EFL Cup): Attwell Man City - Man Utd: Oliver Man Utd - Tottenham: Moss Arsenal - Leicester: Taylor Arsenal - Liverpool: Marriner Man Utd - Leicester: Marriner Man City - Liverpool: Taylor Man City - Liverpool (FA Cup): Oliver Liverpool - Man Utd: Atkinson Chelsea - Arsenal: Moss Arsenal - Man Utd: Pawson Liverpool - Everton: Attwell Man Utd - Chelsea: Dean Tottenham - Leicester: Moss Distribution of these matches in the EPL: Taylor: 8 Tierney: 8 Oliver: 5 Pawson: 5 Moss: 4 Atkinson: 3 Attwell: 3 Marriner: 3 Kavanagh: 2 Dean: 1
Leeds v Manchester City doesn’t seem like it would be an easy game given the clubs, the stakes (for both teams) and the fact that he’s sandwiched in between the UCL semis. I’d call that a big vote of confidence for Tierney. No Oliver or Taylor at all… that seems like more than just them being busy Thursday, right?
Only Tranmere Rovers surely? Also it will be interesting to see how Friend does in the "Atletico Goodison"-Chelsea match if Lampard adopts the same terrible tactics against his former club as he did against Liverpool. PH
Agreed. Leeds v anyone is never an easy game, and this has been true since the 1960s. But at least they do try to play football and win the game. It will need a strong hand. PH
That's a giant sized whole of experience even if, for most of their careers, one of those referees was clearly much better than the other. Does either have plans to go to the VAR booth? I imagine Marriner can't be too far behind, right? At this point, after the clear first tier of Oliver-Taylor, you're now left with almost zero personality on the field. Pawson-Tierney-Attwell-Kavanagh seem almost interchangeably bland, save for Pawson's patented shoulder shrug. There's a big opportunity for someone to emerge next season if only they are both capable and allowed to do so.
There are one or two who look promising but you are right there doesn't seem to have been much of a succession/development plan. There are a couple of others who are also close to their sell-by dates. One of them is the PGMOL manager who was also quite bland. Do these guys have a pension plan of any sort, or do those who become VARs also keep some sort of salary? I wonder what these guys do for their future years? Maybe this why they stay on too long past their best years, they need the income. Previously, before there were full-time referees, they would continue their careers or operate their businesses as they did while refereeing. In other words they had an income to fall back on. I recall Moss was a school PE teacher (once had Milner in his class!)so presumably he could resume that but don't know about the others. I know some prominent European referees were extremely wealthy and others had professional qualifications in medicine or law, so it wasn't an issue for them either, PH
I would think VAR is the most sensible option for many of them given the need nowadays. Going back to a job that they last did 10-15 years ago is presumably not easy. Of course, some can go into referee management/instructing, but the number of good positions is limited.