2021-2022 UEFA Referee Discussion [R]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jul 14, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In fact, unless I've missed something this is the first time since 2011 where a referee has been appointed directly into the QFs without having previously done any UCL knockout match (either in that season's R16 or previous seasons). Craig Thomson of Scotland was on the first leg of Barcelona-Shakhtar, which ended 5-1.

    There are reports Orsato is injured. You couple that with the unavailability of Cakir, Karasev and Hategan as well as the restrictions on Spanish and English referees and you start to see how this appointment can be made. That said, there are EURO 2020 referees available who are still Elite and didn't get a call, so it is nonetheless surprising in that regard. But Soares Dias is the top name of that bunch and obviously he couldn't do the game!

    It does seem like Makkelie for the Final now, though. You use a Dutch referee here and it's not Makkelie? Not sure what other conclusion to draw.
     
  2. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m too lazy to look it up now, but was Oliver’s Real-Juve game a R16 or a QF? Had he ever done a knockout game before that matchup?

    You obviously know more about this stuff than I do, but what I’m reading here is that Makkelie and Turpin are probably the only two possible options for the final. There’s little doubt one will have the final and the other will have the (on paper) more challenging second leg. I’d probably agree with you that G’s appointment (sorry, I’ll totally misspell his name!) means Makkelie has the final, but I don’t think it’s a 100% slam dunk.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    QF, but he had done a R16 match that season.

    Right. Nothing is a slam dunk, but I think it's been clear for a bit that Makkelie and Turpin have either always been the only options or became so as the season progressed (maybe Karasev had a chance?). Turpin working a QF without Makkelie doing so, if recent trends hold, would indicate Makkelie is being saved. Obviously that turns 100% on its head if Makkelie gets a semi and Turpin doesn't.
     
  4. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Europa League

    Atalanta - Leipzig: MATEU LAHOZ (ESP) [Martinez Munuera (ESP)]
    Barcelona - Frankfurt: SOARES DIAS (POR) [Pinheiro (POR), Observer: Riley (ENG)]
    Lyon - West Ham: SCHÄRER (SUI) [Di Bello (ITA)]
    Rangers - Braga: LETEXIER (FRA) [Brisard (FRA)]

    Europa Conference League

    PSV - Leicester: BASTIEN (FRA)
    PAOK - Marseille: MAKKELIE (NED)
    Roma - Bodo/Glimt: SANCHEZ MARTINEZ (ESP)
    Slavia Prague - Feyenoord: AYTEKIN (GER)

    Makkelie's last test before the UCL Final surely. Any bets on Sanchez Martinez giving Mourinho a card?
     
  5. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looking at the schedules, you have to think so.

    If the "favorites" advance (I'm predicting Bayern overcomes its deficit and beats Villareal, but I know Emery is a knockout master), then you have Man City-Real and Bayern-Liverpool in the semis. I'd say Turpin for Man City-Real 2nd leg and Mateu for Bayern-Liverpool first leg since I don't think UEFA would put a Spanish referee on the other bracket's semifinal second leg. After that, who knows? Marciniak? Siebert? A real wild card?

    I'm guessing UEFA wishes they had Brych and Kuipers just for these semis. Benfica-Liverpool feels like a game Brych would handle well, and Kuipers would manage the big personalities in a Real-Chelsea game. (Full caveat that I say all of this without fully understanding all of the previous assignments, permutations, etc. surrounding assigning.)
     
  6. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whoops, meant BAYERN-Liverpool.
     
  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From lower league Spain. This level of cheating from a coach is so outside of the spirit of the game that giving a direct free kick and a red card feels unjust.

    I could almost make an argument that a player or staff from the bench area who comes on to the field and interferes with play that is spa or dogso should be awarded with a penalty kick no matter where the offense occurred on the field. I know it would be a massive change to how fouls and penalty kicks are awarded, but we've already made quite a few changes to laws 12 and 13 in the last few years when it comes to people from the bench area.


     
    Mi3ke repped this.
  8. Mi3ke

    Mi3ke Member

    Oct 18, 2011
    New Mexico
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or, in addition to the off-field person getting red, an on-field person also has to leave the pitch and the team plays a person down.

    Food for thought.

    Cheers, Mi3ke
     
    AremRed and RefIADad repped this.
  9. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    That really goes against the nature of a PK, but I understand your frustration.

    Make it an automatic 3 year ban and a huge fine. It will never happen again.
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  10. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    A similar thing happened in a match in the Pan-American games played in Indianapolis in 1987. A team official ran onto the pitch and kicked a player of the opposition who was sprinting downfield on a breakaway. The result was a big melee and the match was terminated by the US FIFA referee Angelo Bratsis.
    I don't recall which match it was (but possibly Mexico v. Brazil since both teams were assessed heavy fines by FIFA).
    (see http://www.rsssf.com/tablesp/panam87.html)

    PH
     
    Thegreatwar repped this.
  11. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Bayern-Villarreal; Lewandowski cautioned for foul on Villarreal player who was injured and was treated by the physio. The ViIllarreal player did not have to go off, but the British announcers expected that he would.
    Probably because they are used to the EPL standard.
    E.G. in the Spurs-Villa match last weekend Kane was injured and received treatment from a tackle by Young for which Young was cautioned. Kane went to the touchline until the free kick was taken.

    PH
     
  12. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chelsea scores the big goal from the corner that wasn't a corner. Cue those screaming for a var expansion.
     
  13. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was that Chelsea goal pulled back for handling from the goalscorer? (Watching at work without sound)

    seems odd that there was no OFR - didn’t seem clear to me at all but I am watching on a cell phone…
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No OFRs in UEFA (or all Europe?) for accidental attacking handling. It's viewed as an objective decision.
     
    SouthRef repped this.
  15. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    thanks

    Not apparent to me at all but watching on a 3 cm screen so that probably didn’t help

    Chelsea didn’t seem to complain much so I assumed it was pretty cut and dried
     
  16. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought Marciniak did really well on this game. He was on top of every penalty area and big free kick decision. He really looked like the guy from a few years ago that seemed like he was about to make a run at a Champions League final.
     
    AremRed and IASocFan repped this.
  17. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    yes, beside that pesky matter of Chelsea’s 2nd goal coming off an incorrectly awarded corner kick …
     
  18. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is turning out to be some interesting fantasy assigning for the semifinals. We're gonna be shut out of English and Spanish refs plus Cakir, Hatagen and Karasev being out of use.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Orsato is healthy I don’t think it’s too hard. Him, Turpin, Marciniak and probably Siebert if he performs tomorrow. Vincic probably the 5th name if Siebert or Marciniak doesn’t get the nod or Orsato isn’t healthy.

    Now, it will be one of the most inexperienced quartets of semifinal referees I can remember. But it may not be too hard to predict. Orsato injury lasting some time would change that.
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So Tuchel has an issue with Marciniak (in addition to him smiling with Ancelotti):

    Of course, his problem is a complete misunderstanding of how VAR operates. Or, he does understand and chooses to deflect by placing the blame on the referee when no blame lies there. Either way, yet another example where VAR actually does exactly what it’s supposed to do and a manager uses the media to undermine it and ensure we still have controversy on something that, effectively, is not a controversial decision.
     
  21. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Just wait for Benfica and Atletico Madrid to win and free up Taylor and Oliver :D
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  22. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    I do think that Tuchel has a point about the laughing.
    He isn't saying it affected the match, just that it was poor form.
    I agree.
    You see this at youth level all the time.
    I get that the local soccer world is a small community and that coaches & refs know each other and often played together.

    But a referee should know better than laugh and joke with one coach.
    If you want to do it with both coaches together, have at it.

    But it sucks to walk up to a field and see the ref joking around with the other coach. It also sucks to see it post game.

    Is it harmless? Yes for the most part.
    Is it still poor form? Yes.
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let’s see what the actual “smiling and laughing” was before we draw any conclusions. Given his other remarks I see no reason to accept Tuchel’s characterization at face value. I also guarantee Tuchel has exchanged a smile and maybe even a kind word post-match with a referee when he’s been in a better mood.

    A smile isn’t a felony. These people all know each other. This isn’t your local U12 game. But Tuchel and others use the public’s ignorance of that to deflect and score points in the media. That’s likely all this is.
     
    roby and socal lurker repped this.
  24. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Klopp's interaction with Cakir after the 4-0 semifinal win against Barcelona can also be characterized as "smiling and laughing". See minute 1:05 here:



    So I agree with @MassachusettsRef about the familiarity between people at this level. But I also see @Sport Billy's point that Marciniak could have had better awareness that Tuchel was walking up to him and how Tuchel likely felt after such a defeat. In the Klopp situation, Valverde was nowhere in the vicinity, so no one cared.
     
  25. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every time I see people complain about the attacker handball law the only phrase that goes through my mind is “this is what football wants…”
     
    MassachusettsRef repped this.

Share This Page