2022 MLS Week 05 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by A66C, Mar 24, 2022.

  1. A66C

    A66C Member

    N/A
    United States
    Jan 3, 2022
    03/26/22

    Charlotte FC vs FC Cincinnati
    Bank of America Stadium (5PM ET)
    REF: Alex Chilowicz
    AR1: Mike Rottersman
    AR2: Matthew Nelson
    4TH: Lukasz Szpala
    VAR: Fotis Bazakos
    AVAR: Jeff Muschik

    Sporting Kansas City vs Real Salt Lake
    Children’s Mercy Park (7PM ET)
    REF: Joe Dickerson
    AR1: Brian Dunn
    AR2: Cameron Blanchard
    4TH: Victor Rivas
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    03/27/22

    Portland Timbers vs Orlando City
    Providence Park (4PM ET) on ESPN
    REF: Marcos DeOliveira
    AR1: Jeremy Hanson
    AR2: Adam Wienckowski
    4TH: Ramy Touchan
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar
     
  2. A66C

    A66C Member

    N/A
    United States
    Jan 3, 2022
    04/02/22

    Chicago Fire vs FC Dallas
    Soldier Field (3:30PM ET)
    REF: Pierre-Luc Lauziere
    AR1: Logan Brown
    AR2: Jose Da Silva
    4TH: Calin Radosav
    VAR: Geoff Gamble
    AVAR: Peter Manikowski

    FC Cincinnati vs CF Montréal
    TQL Stadium (4PM ET)
    REF: Tori Penso
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Ben Pilgrim
    4TH: Luis Arroyo
    VAR: Jon Freemon
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    Toronto FC vs New York City FC
    BMO Field (4PM ET)
    REF: Drew Fischer
    AR1: Cory Richardson
    AR2: Jason White
    4TH: Silviu Petrescu
    VAR: Carol Anne Chenard
    AVAR: Chantal Boudreau

    Columbus Crew vs Nashville
    Lower.com Field (6PM ET)
    REF: Rubiel Vazquez
    AR1: Chris Elliott
    AR2: Meghan Mullen
    4TH: Marcos DeOliveira
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Eric Weisbrod

    D.C. United vs Atlanta United
    Audi Field (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Armando Villarreal
    AR1: Ryan Graves
    AR2: Brooke Mayo
    4TH: Guido Gonzales Jr
    VAR: Younes Marrakchi
    AVAR: Jeff Muschik

    New England Revolution vs New York Red Bulls
    Gillette Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Victor Rivas
    AR1: Brian Dunn
    AR2: Gjovalin Bori
    4TH: Chris Penso
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar

    Orlando City vs Los Angeles FC
    Exploria Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Joe Dickerson
    AR1: Gianni Facchini
    AR2: Kevin Klinger
    4TH: Matthew Corrigan
    VAR: Rosendo Mendoza
    AVAR: TJ Zablocki

    Philadelphia Union vs Charlotte FC
    Subaru Park (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Timothy Ford
    AR1: Corey Parker
    AR2: Kevin Lock
    4TH: Ismir Pekmic
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Tom Supple

    San Jose Earthquakes vs Austin FC
    PayPal Park (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Alex Chilowicz
    AR1: Jeffrey Swartzel
    AR2: Tyler Wyrostek
    4TH: Lukasz Szpala
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    Inter Miami vs Houston Dynamo
    DRV PNK Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: Allen Chapman
    AR1: Jeffrey Greeson
    AR2: Andrew Bigelow
    4TH: Joshua Encarnacion
    VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero
    AVAR: Claudiu Badea

    Minnesota United vs Seattle Sounders
    Allianz Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Ismail Elfath
    AR1: Micheal Barwegen
    AR2: Adam Garner
    4TH: Thomas Snyder
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Craig Lowry

    Vancouver Whitecaps vs Sporting Kansas City
    BC Place (8PM ET)
    REF: Fotis Bazakos
    AR1: Ian Anderson
    AR2: Lyes Arfa
    4TH: Ramy Touchan
    VAR: Alejandro Mariscal
    AVAR: Rene Parra

    Colorado Rapids vs Real Salt Lake
    Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (9PM ET)
    REF: Ted Unkel
    AR1: Kyle Atkins
    AR2: Tiffini Turpin
    4TH: Ricardo Fierro
    VAR: Kevin Stott
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak

    04/03/22

    Portland Timbers vs LA Galaxy
    Providence Park (4:30PM ET)
    REF: Nima Saghafi
    AR1: Nick Uranga
    AR2: Cameron Blanchard
    4TH: Lukasz Szpala
    VAR: Jon Freemon
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson
     
  3. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Anyone know why we haven't seen Mendoza, Stott and Petrescu yet in the middle? Are they hurt or something?
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  4. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Could be they haven’t passed a fitness test yet, or injury.
     
  5. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Thought Elfath was less than stellar in the Minnesota-Seattle match.

    Missed what looked like a pretty strong PK shout when a Minnesota defender looked to trip Morris in the box near the byline early in the first half, and then gave a questionable PK to Minnesota late in the 2nd half when one of their attackers tried to knife/jump his way through three Seattle defenders.
     
  6. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    PRO Statement: TOR vs NYC
    April 2, 2022 PRO media

    The Professional Referee Organization (PRO) acknowledges that a significant officiating error occurred in an important match situation in the eighth minute of the game between Toronto FC and New York City FC.

    The Video Assistant Referee (VAR) incorrectly determined the awarding of a penalty kick to be a clear and obvious error, as the selection of camera angles examined did not reveal foul contact from Toronto FC’s Kosi Thompson on New York City FC striker Talles Magno.

    While an available camera angle did reveal foul contact, that alternative camera angle was not examined by the VAR, nor was it made available to the referee on the pitch-side monitor. The referee changed his decision and rescinded the penalty kick.

    PRO can confirm that the awarding of a penalty kick was not a clear and obvious error, and the referee’s initial decision should have been allowed to stand.

    http://proreferees.com/2022/04/02/2022-pro-statement-tor-vs-nyc/
     
  7. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You wonder on this kind of foul if Fisher would have the confidence to stick with it despite the lack of confirming video evidence. I mean, you can tell on the replays shown that you don't get the right angle. I'd like to think that a referee would be confident enough to know "I saw contact, and I don't see a replay that shows it wasn't there." But maybe he was only 75% on the original call, in which case I'd understand the reversal. All around though, not a good look.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s the 1998 Baharmast question we asked before VAR was implemented. If a referee was correct but video couldn’t prove it, what would he do? Here’s the answer. And it’s not surprising. The risk for Fischer personally is much higher if he rejects evidence from a crew member he’s supposed to trust. I haven’t heard the audio, but so long as Fischer is asking if there’s any other angle he needs to see, I don’t see how he can be faulted.
     
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  9. A66C

    A66C Member

    N/A
    United States
    Jan 3, 2022
    I saw this on Tori Penso's Instagram page — does anyone know if MLS is planning to shift to fully centralized VAR? IMG_25D8CBAC65AE-1.jpeg
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. Several of the duos were in Atlanta this weekend.
     
  11. TLR2

    TLR2 Member

    Mar 26, 2016
    Club:
    Everton FC
  12. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Not a good end of half for Saghafi in POR:LAG.
    No call on a clear foul that ended with a possible head injury. There was no call because he made the mistake of looking up field too soon. Follows that with a red for a shove on the shoulder.
     
    TLR2 repped this.
  13. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Was a shove not a punch
    To the shoulder, not the face.

    super quick pull of the red.

    never should be a red
     
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  14. TLR2

    TLR2 Member

    Mar 26, 2016
    Club:
    Everton FC
    It was honestly so confusing, cannot for the life of me figure out why VAR didn’t save him.

     
    Sport Billy repped this.
  15. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Because his form was so bad. If VAR reverse that aggressive and quick of a red card, the ref looks like a fool.
     
  16. TLR2

    TLR2 Member

    Mar 26, 2016
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Well, he looks like a fool for giving it too…
     
  17. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now he’s had 5 yellows and a 2nd caution red in the second half. I have a feeling there will be more to come before this game is over.
     
  18. TLR2

    TLR2 Member

    Mar 26, 2016
    Club:
    Everton FC
    He’s having a game I’d imagine he is hoping to forget very shortly after he leaves the pitch. Just not good.

     
  19. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Even if the player is looking for it. And he was as he dragged the foot. If you still hit the attacker and take him down, it should be a pk.
     
  20. TLR2

    TLR2 Member

    Mar 26, 2016
    Club:
    Everton FC
    LOL, another missed pk. Can someone go check on the VAR to make sure he’s okay?
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The fact that you think that is even in the same galaxy as how MLS VARs operate is astounding.

    It’s a deliberate strike at a dead ball. That used to ALWAYS be a red card. Things have become more lenient over time in some competitions, yes. But the idea that it’s “clearly wrong” to show red for that because it didn’t hit the head is, well, clearly wrong. Violent conduct can still occur even if the head isn’t struck in a situation like this. The struck player didn’t go down or hold his head—Saghafi knew it didn’t strike the head. Saghafi called what he saw. He decided that a deliberate strike of the opponent rose to the level of violent conduct. Nothing about the decision is “clearly wrong.”

    It anyone wants to say it’s harsh, fine. We’ve seen yellow suffice for that sort of reaction. So I won’t argue if people prefer a yellow card. I might prefer a yellow card. But that’s the point. It’s about preference on a subjective decision. Neither color is wrong for this per se. So it’s not a situation where VAR should intercede.

    Long way of saying if you want to criticize Saghafi, go ahead. But if you want to criticize the VAR here or, worse, assign nefarious motives to him, then it shows you have no idea how VAR is supposed to work or what considerations go through the mind of a well-trained VAR.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  22. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not to mention, at full speed (and if you're judging this at anything other than full speed, you're already doing it wrong), excessive force is an exceedingly plausible decision, perhaps even the expected one. It's a solid whack.
     
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  23. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    I’ll also bring up that it’s a different story if Saghafi tells the VAR he’s seen contact to the face or head. If that’s the case, a review here becomes much more justifiable - but assuming he’s seen it correctly, this is a subjective matter and the VAR should support him.
     
  24. RefGil

    RefGil Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    The Saghafi piling on from a couple is kind of funny. I only watched a bit of the game, and I don't have a dog in the fight.

    I'll leave the first red alone, it's already been discussed.

    But if you're up a man, and on a card, don't give the ref an easy SPA. Just don't do it. That's a card 100% of the time if the defender isn't on one. It's a 2CT 100% of the time if you are up a man.

    On the PK, the attacker drags his right foot to create the contact. He's even looking down at his right foot, making sure. The VAR had a quick look, and sent down "Check Complete". Good call by Saghafi in my view.
     
  25. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Um, yah, that's a straight red. For me anyway. At the least it is a crowd control red. I could buy a caution to the instigator too, but only barely. But put me down for a straight red on that.
     

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