How good was the Campeonato Paulista in the 60s?

According to some forum experts, it was one of the 10 highest level tournaments in the world. However, that only circumscribed for Santos, Palmeiras, Corinthians and Sao Paulo. Afterwards, most of the teams were from lower categories and it helped players like Pelé a lot to increase their statistics (he scored 450 goals).

I am not against Pelé, who was probably the best player in history. I simply say this because Pelé counts those goals scored against teams from lower divisions for the statistics of the highest scorers in the first division. And that is misleading.

Same example with Bican, who scored 100 goals in the second division and yet they tell him about it.

Messi scored 11 goals in the Spanish second and third division. However, they are not told. There are not many, but it is a fact to take into account.

To conclude and not deviate from the topic, I believe that the four big teams in Sao Paulo were among the best teams in the world, but that the other teams had a much lower level.

 

Unfortunately, it is a myth created by Tropeiro that the Paulista Championship is a top world league. There is no proof of it.

Pelé's goal ratio is lower in the National League and in the RIO-Sao Paulo Tournament than in the Paulista Championship. Why?

Paulista Championship: 466 goals in 410 games, ratio 1.14
RIO-Sao Paulo Tournament: 49 goals in 53 games, ratio 0.92
National League: 101 goals in 174 games, ratio 0,58

As we can see, the more complex the competition was, the more Pelé's goal ratio decreased. I am not against Pelé, but it is a criticism of the competition in which he played most of his career.

 

The national league was only established in 1971. Pelé's GPG ratio in that competition is influenced by Pelé being way past his prime which was ca. 1958 to 1965.

 

Within Brazil, Paulista clubs (including Santos) have been the most successful.

In the Rio-São Paulo tournaments between 1933 and 1966, São Paulo clubs won sixteen competitions outright to Rio's six.

Of the "national" competitions between 1959 and 2021 (Taça Brasil, Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa, Brasileiro), São Paulo clubs won 32 of them and Rio clubs 18.

Half the twenty Brazilian Copa Libertadores champions were Paulista (Porto Alegre next with five), and six of the nine winners of the Intercontinental Cup and its successors.

 

I know, but CBF recognizes such leagues since 1959. If we count from 1971, Pelé's goal ratio is worse.

1971 - 1974: 34 goals in 84 games, ratio 0.40

Indeed he was not in his prime, but that shows a lack of consistency. If Pelé is in debate it is precisely for this reason. On the contrary, Puskás as a scorer had more consistency and his statistics are very good in the last years of his career.

 

Statistics without the proper context and interpretation can lead to misleading conclusions.

- Puskas was basically the real CF for Real Madrid in a line with Kopa - Rial - Di Stefano - Puskas and Gento. Di Stefano dropping back for creative duties and Puskas frequently closer to the box.

- Pelé, while playing for Santos, always played with a real CF (Number 9) by his side. And as he got older and his body was not the same, his frequency of stepping into the box probably also dropped, changing the focus from the goalscoring aspect to the constructive aspect.

 

I gave a rep to Gragoriak and MB just because I think those are valid and applicable points to consider, not because I'm suggesting what anamnesis is writing is completely rubbish or something (just thought I'd better clarify that).

One thing that might be interesting to consider is how would the full year's worth of games for Santos in Brazil compare to a standard league season in England, Spain, Italy etc at the time. I suspect such comparisons might not be far off in terms of some games against comparable teams (to some extent), but with around half the teams or more of a clearly lower standard than Santos (like it would certainly be for a Real Madrid, Barcelona, pretty much for an AC Milan or Inter Milan or Juventus, and also in their best periods for teams like Tottenham or Manchester United).

 

I think they don't understand me. I am not against Pelé who is possibly the goat. My criticism is directed at the São Paulo regional league. I think it is a blind vision to think that it was a top world league. Clearly the Brazilian league and the Rio-Sao Paulo tournament are better. Which is completely logical because there was more competition outside of São Paulo. Going back to Pelé, he has proven to be the best against the best teams in the world. That's not even a debate.

 

I understand what you're saying. It is right. However, this does not mean that Pelé was not inconsistent.

Now imagine how much maligned Messi would be if he scored 1 French league goal in 21 games.