Bad stories

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Law5, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    I only attend my region's regional webinars for that reason. Unfortunately, I feel the same way coming out of some of those.

    That sounds like a good guy. I understand that inexperienced and especially youth refs won't be perfect or even great to begin with. But all I'm talking about is mechanics. That's it. Couldn't care less about actually calling things correctly. Just get the basics correct first.

    It's definitely a broad statement and is not common for me. I just mean that some of the experienced adult refs do it and it's frustrating.

    I've definitely done it as well but have worked studiously to stop. Also there is a young ref (I think 17 or 18) in one of my clubs who clearly wants to move up to regional so he would take a bunch of games and I would watch him be completely out of position and clearly very tired as an AR (age of 17 already using the massage roller on his legs after/before games) after too many games in a day. Told him he needs to look at quality over quantity, because by doing tons of games but performing poorly in them, he's not doing himself any favors.
     
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  2. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Had a U19M MLS Next game that was probably the hardest game I've ever done.

    Gave a PK to away team in minute 80 which looking back I shouldn't have given. I saw a player getting trampled and my AR saw GK scooping ball up and two running players tripping over.

    I kept the PK after conferring with my AR. As PK was getting setup, one of home players and away players start shoving, so I tweet and push them away because they're starting to butt chests.

    As that happens, home player goes "I'll f***ng kill you". I take a moment to proccess. Now these two have already been warned and there has already been a few words exchanged between them prior.

    Red card.

    Coach goes crazy and says that's not a red card. One of my ARs says thats a yellow for sure. Depending on tempo etc. To me the tempo has been high. I needed to find a way to cool it.

    They score the PK. 3 minutes go by. I give ANOTHER PK for away team. If scored, it would be 4-4. Anyway, I confer with AR and said he saw a handball but it was tucked in. I didn't see the tuck in.

    We restart with a dropball to keeper.

    So ..... in the end: 4 yellows and 1 red to home and 1 yellow to away.

    I mean not the worst I've done but definitely a change of pace. I think if I hadn't called the PK nor the other one, I'd feel A LOT better about the whole thing.
     
  3. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sounds like a moment where you doing your job bites you in the ass.

    Had one today where the defender goes to clear a ball and ever so slightly kicks it into the path of a then offside attacker. And when I say kicks it, I mean where you can hear the contact but not really see it. Three cautions for dissent later we restart with a kickoff. I know I made the right decision. That entire team thinks I'm an idiot. Welcome to the job.
     
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  4. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    man, that sounds ugly.
    I think since you had warned and the home player continued, he’s gone.
     
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  5. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Not going to comment on your PKs because who knows. At least you had the courage to rescind your own PK.

    Telling another player "I'll f-ing kill you" is absolutely 100% a red card every day for me, not "depending on the match temperature". Major profanity (as opposed to damn it, what the hell, etc.) directed at another player, a direct threat of violence made to another player. What happens to your reputation if you leave him on the field with only a yellow and he commits SFP/VC against the player he threatened to kill, even injuring him? Tell the coach that if that was said to someone in public he could press assault charges. Would be nice to see MLS Next give him a game or two tacked on to whatever the OFFINABUS suspension is.

    They always do this crap. They're the ones who mess up, then get angry at the ref for correctly punishing them for it.

    Anyway my bad story from today is just another classic "regional referee" experience of mine. Was doing U13 and U14 MLS Next

    - Shows up 22 minutes before kickoff when MLS Next wants 60 min before (60 is ridiculous, we usually do 40-45). Other AR on crew tells me "he always shows up late (like not long before kickoff), no matter what game youth/adult/etc.". Does a half-assed check-in where he doesn't even have all the players in line, and barely any pregame. And when we made joke about him showing up late, he says how it's a waste of time to get to games early and they should pay for the extra time.

    - AR delayed an offside call because ball went out of play. Coach saying how he'll take the offside. CR loudly says to coach "my AR isn't calling offside, I think you're lying" then loudly calls to AR if he saw offside, they don't call it since ball went OOP. Coach is upset at his attitude towards him and they get into arguing match about his lack of respect.

    What a joke. It's always the regionals. I hate working with so many of them. So many people hate working with them. How do they get these badges.
     
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  6. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please don’t let the actions of a few spoil it for those of us who take our job seriously and worked hard to earn the regional badge.
     
  7. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #282 RefIADad, Feb 19, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2022
    “I’ll f^^^ing kill you” is a red card all day, every day, twice on Sunday, and three times on a holiday. Doesn’t matter what the temperature of the match is. If you send someone off for that and someone complains, the problem lies with them and not you.
     
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  8. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    gaolin, if that isn't offensive, insulting or abusive language, what is?

    A while back, we had a coach, who also happened to be a referee, make a somewhat similar strength threat against the referee during a U-16 girls game he was coaching. He ultimately got what I call 'the black card." Dismissal from the Federation, meaning he cannot referee, coach, play or administer soccer affiliated with FIFA anywhere. IMHO, at least a caution to the coach for dissent and I could justify a red for Offinabus by the coach because saying that implies that you are so stupid you don't know what the Laws say about language.
     
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  9. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Maybe I miss-worded it. I 100% stand by my send-off. I was just baffled a lot of referees were going "Eh that's a yellow, y'know?" So, yeah, red card. I did see that same coach today as AR1 for U15M MLSN. Story is in "Best Stories 2022".
     
  10. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Sounds similar to my scenario last year. The guy was an AR for the first of a 3 game set and sent a text to me and the other referee that "there was traffic" and was running late. Who texts while driving? The other ref worked with him previously and said he's done that before.

    If someone is well liked by an assignor or at a certain "level", there's not much you can do without drawing attention to yourself.
     
  11. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    voice recognition on a smart phone makes that pretty easy to do without even touching the phone
     
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  12. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    Or while stopped at a light.
     
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  13. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    You're right, it's not right of me to think about lumping so many people together. I have had some good experiences, but I've had more than enough poor ones than I'd expect. If I do a game with one, I try to study their game and take some habits with me, but I rarely see anything worth taking. Maybe my games just aren't high enough for them to take seriously.

    Heck, just last weekend on the U19 MLSN regional CR assessment match I did. Performance was fine, but he didn't confirm the book with us before leaving. There ended up being confusion when he did the game report at night, as he had a different player scoring than the lead AR. Not sure who was right, but IMO it's Inexcusable for a regional to not even verify who actually scored a goal, let alone confirm the book with both ARs. But it's pretty typical of the more-frequent-than-expected mechanic oversights I see from the ones I work with.

    Yeah, I had no idea who the guy was so I told the other AR that he should bring it up to the MLSN assignor (our region's referee coach) because people who don't seem to care shouldn't get the privilege of doing those games. Then I found out he was a regional and knew there's no point. Even if we reported the completely unacceptable comment he made to the coach about lying about offside, I doubt a regional gets any reprimand.
     
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  14. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    This whole thing reminds me of the worst ref experience I ever had. Last week of the season I had to do a U16 boys game solo. Home player had wrist broken/injured earlier in season against same team so there were bad feelings. Wrist player committed a reckless foul in front of their bench and before I could issue card I hear from away bench LET'S BREAK HIS OTHER ARM NOW! and before I can even respond to issue a RC to the player or coach if no one admitted it, the home coach runs into their technical area screaming and threatening players/coach to fight him, I'm stuck in the middle as players run in and just as things are simmering down spectators start running over and visiting spectators trying to square up with home coach. All I could do was run to my nearby bag and scream that I'm calling the police and everyone dispersed. Ended up not even issuing any red cards to anyone (obviously home coach and visiting player or coach would have ben red carded) because of the complete meltdown I had. I believe the coach got banned from ever coaching youth soccer again, or maybe just in that club.

    Anyway, this is basically exactly why you have to take threat statements extremely seriously, don't ever shy away from a red because it's just words or that you're acting too harshly; dealing too leniently with direct threats can become a complete disaster for you.
     
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  15. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m actually amazed you even continued the game. If I had fans running across the field, I’m calling the police and abandoning the match.
     
  16. AlextheRef

    AlextheRef Member

    Jun 29, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lots of stories this past weekend so I'll focus my response to a discussion I can potentially contribute to.

    I can speak for only my state, but the regionals and "up-and-comers" here are consistently, publicly, told they are held to a higher standard. The expectation is that they excel in things they can control (like professionalism and work-rate). It's harder during COVID for these refs to get consistently seen, which makes it harder to establish a pecking order to determine who should be recommended for select events and should be on the radar for national/PRO advancement. Thus, the "people in charge" want to know if their refs are dogging it or building unacceptable habits when they're away from their regional cohorts.

    You've shared two stories that would absolutely, 100% not fly in my area for a regional level referee. The offside story and coach argument would result in some missed assignments, re-training phone calls, and likely public criticism/constructive feedback on a zoom development webinar with other referees (about other "tools" to use instead). If that specific referee exhibited an attitude in handling the well-deserved criticism, they may even lose their spot in the pecking order/development group/assigning pool/whatever. The admin screwup (not confirming goalscorers) would also result in something similar, to a lesser degree.

    So, from an outside observer, I'd recommend reporting problems you see up the chain. I'd phrase the complaint as constructive feedback for improvement (rather than critical feedback about a colleague), and let the powers that be decide how "bad" the situation is. If your criticism seems spiteful, an assessor/mentor/instructor may just think "oh this person is trying to drag others down to get more opportunities." Instead, phrasing the comment like: "hey, I'm not sure where [so-and-so]'s career is on the regional stage, but I saw a problem working with him last week that can provide an opportunity for further training and referee development..."

    But, what do I know, maybe I don't have a good appreciation of the political landscape in your area. I just know that my area's assignor for MLSN games would want to know that information.
     
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  17. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Good grief. 16U game with known bad blood on the last game of the season and it's solo?!? That just shouldn't happen.

     
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  18. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Oh I definitely didn't continue the game. I blew the whistle three times and I believe I was screaming "I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY, I HOPE YOU'RE ALL HAPPY, THIS IS A DISGRACE, I DON'T COME OUT HERE FOR THIS CRAP" and then sat at my bag muttering obscenities to myself while writing a report on the back of the game card. I didn't call the cops because everyone was dispersing. I had a complete meltdown.

    Meh what could I do, no one else signed up as my ARs and no one knew about the bad blood between the teams. And while it's definitely not ideal, I don't really complain about having to do youth games solo because I know that in England they have to do basically all their games solo. The only thing that upset me about it is that when I do solo matches I care way more about fouls and player safety than I do about offside, so to have something like that happen literally as I'm standing between the benches made me feel like I could have done more to prevent it.
     
  19. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Non League Div One Tadcaster Albion are considering having their match postponed today. :rolleyes:

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Soccer Dad & Ref

    Oct 19, 2017
    San Diego
    Sounds like you're still being harder on yourself than you should be. That sounded insane, I have no clue what I would have done in the same situation.
     
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  21. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    At least it was a learning experience. The real thing that lost control for me was that I was in between their benches on the touch line to give a card already so I was literally in the middle of the coach and players running in so I couldn't see anything. If I had been a fat old guy and been out of position, further back in the field of play, I could have stood back and observed everything. Not blaming myself for being where I was because it was 100% necessary, just unlucky.
     
  22. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    I think I kicked a call Monday night.

    Two weeks ago I was AR2 in a JV boys game that was a track meet. 8-0 visitors. Monday, same two teams but at the other school's place. And this was a dual. According to the assignor, every other referee was on a game. He could not give us a third. And because the soccer gods have a sense of humor, the game was 1-1 with three minutes left.

    Home team kicks a high ball, misplayed by the keeper. It bounces over the keeper's head at the top of the penalty area. As the ball approaches the goal line, it is obvious the keeper was not going to get it. But right before the ball crosses the goal line, the attacker runs into the back of the keeper. I allowed the goal because there was no way the keeper was going to get the ball, even if he wasn't fouled. But as I thought about it on the drive home, I thought maybe I should have called the foul because the keeper was fouled.

    Regardless of what I did, one coach was going to come unglued.
     
  23. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It sounds like you ruled the contact trifling. The contact did not effect the goal.
    If he body slammed him, that might be harder to sell.
     
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  24. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Those can be tough. I think odds of being trifling are definitely higher when you've concluded the player can't get the ball. In some ways this is similar to a foul on an attacker after a shot--we're more likely to consider contact trifling after the shot gets away than if the attacker still has a chance to play the ball. So for me, the question is how significant the contact on the GK was. The feel I get from your post is that it probably reached a level I would call the foul--and hopefully have the whistle before the ball entered the goal. But it is definitely a "have to be there" kind of call to evaluate.
     
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  25. RefModeExplode

    Feb 14, 2022
    Agree with this is; don't obsess on it. Both of those clubs (coaches, players, and parents) should be ashamed. Having what you call a "melt down" is what I call "being a human." Sidebar-- I have cancelled a match before for similar reasons (parents running on field, etc) and also felt like I biffed it all up. Good luck!
     
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