Bad stories

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Law5, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    #251 MetroFever, Feb 6, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2022
    I've seen many referee reports. Many will say "Coach from the Red Team was complaining about calls beginning at kickoff and a caution for dissent was given in the 83rd minute". 83rd minute? Yep, that will teach him a lesson when you had to listen to this for a whole game.
     
  2. seattlebeach

    seattlebeach Member

    AFC Richmond
    May 11, 2015
    Not Seattle, Not Beach
    Couple years back, Adult Cup SF, one of the assistant coaches "Ed" is a referee I and the ARs know pretty well, he's better than average. Ed thanks us for being there, brings us waters, is overly kind.

    I'd been told by the QF CR that Ed acted out in his game, but nothing for me until second half. Bark bark, bark bark, "what are you doing seattlebeach," Caution. More barking, and I pull over the head coach (who's been quiet and I've known for years) and said "please help me not have to send Ed off," and he literally sends him away from the field to "take a walk."

    Game ends, Ed comes and apologizes to us for his behavior, we say thank you. Then he starts in "but I just have to say..." and one of the AR's cuts him off with a kind version of "we want to be able to work with you again, if you have concerns please send them to the assignor, else you need to stop talking." He does not stop talking. I send a note to the Assignor with the AR's cc'd, and I have not seen him at any event since.
     
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  3. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Anytime a coach masks theirs their apology with a "but..." that's not an apology. It's a trap to berate you one more time.

    I've had it happen to a coach who complained he lost 3-1 because his team was 1-up and I gave a drop-ball which "changed the dynamic of the game."
     
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  4. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    MLS Next coach today was upset I didn't call an offside (nothing happened from it, the offside player didn't even play the ball), giving me the classic "the offside player (who was 3 yards away from defender) 'influenced' his defender to want to clear the ball, therefore it is offside."

    At the end of the game (his team got destroyed), I offered to explain to him the reason I didn't call the offside so he would know for the future. He declined. These guys don't even want to gain some knowledge to help them. It's sad really.
     
  5. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Also had a nightmare scenario for me in the previous game (U13 MLS). Ball sitting stationing in top corner of PA opposite AR side. Attacker and defender both run from about 5 yards away each to ball. A collision occurs. I am right there and I immediately signaled for PK because I was sure I saw the attacker get ball first then defender got him a split second later. Defender is down in box slightly injured. As I wait the 15-20 seconds as he is down, I start processing it in my mind, did I actually see that, because I realized the defender and attacker were running in reverse directions (defender running into box to ball, attacker running towards out of box to ball) when the collision happened. After thinking, I could not say with certainty that what I thought I saw happen actually happened, so I cowardly apologized and said my bad, and gave a FK for the defending team going out, because I did not want to give a PK if I was in doubt of reality. No one on the field or coaching staff complained at all which surprised me. Then at halftime, both my ARs thought I called it right the first time, that it was a penalty.

    Luckily this had no effect on the game (PK team won by 8 goals), but I already hate giving penalties (every time an attacker dribbles in the box and a defender gets close I say DON'T DON'T DON'T in my mind) and this situation where a ball is there and two players run in at speed, a collision occurs, and I have to make a split second decision on which player fouled which, and if I'm giving a FK out or a PK, usually just based on a flash of sock color and black cleats, is my worst nightmare.
     
  6. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Changing your mind to get the call you think it should have been or even, in this situation, to not give a PK if you aren't certain is a wise move. You said you were in a much better position than your ARs (one on opposite side and one presumably 40+ yards away behind you).

    I'd never have a problem calling a PK. There's a little more pressure to be as certain as possible, but if it's a PK then it's a PK. No skin off my back.
     
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  7. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I think this is where we need to get to. We don't "give" penalties; we recognize that an offense has occurred and the consequences of the offense. The more we think about it as "giving," IMO, the more we tie ourselves up. (The same thing with send offs; when we send off a player or coach, we are recognizing that the player or coach, but his or her actions, has decided not to participate further in the match.)
     
  8. AlextheRef

    AlextheRef Member

    Jun 29, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This one treads the line between bad story and good story.

    The bad: Last May I suffered a training injury during a hard session that felt like a pulled/strained groin. Training had been going well and I was near my lifetime peak of cardiovascular fitness at the time of injury. I immediately reduced the training load to try and survive my upcoming assessments but the pain persisted after every game/workout. I survived the busy period of games, assessments, and a fitness test at the end of spring, and I took a break to recover before the heavy slate of fall games began. The pain in my groin and hips/pelvis came back as soon as I started reffing in the fall. I modified training to make it through the season and simultaneously started looking for doctors. After my season ended (and after passing a fitness test), I found out I partially tore hip adductors on both legs and my rectus abdominis, right at their origin points on my pelvis (public symphysis/pubic aponeurosis).

    The good: I successfully had an offseason surgery and am beginning physical therapy this week with a reputable physical therapist. I'm likely going to have a delayed start to the season, but I'm optimistic that I can start cardio in March with a hopeful return to high level fitness around May. This has made me more confident about reaching my fitness and referee potential going into my thirties. I was worried that trying to grind out another year could result in further injury, bad performances, or failed fitness tests; which likely would have derailed my referee goals.

    Plus, now, I hopefully have the benefit of knowing how to improve my level of fitness more efficiently and effectively. I've been doing a ton of research coming back from my 2018 knee surgery, but I've been on my own with the implementation of that research. I have a better idea of what types of stress my body can and cannot handle during training blocks. Looking back, I learned a few ways to stay fit and pass fitness tests with significantly less running mileage and I can use those experiences going forward. I'll also have a connection to a good PT to help with minor training/fitness issues, something I previously didn't have. I'm excited to get back to training and to see what's next!
     
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  9. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    The bad: Tonight a former MLS ref was going to let me do his girls varsity HS center instead of AR so he could do some mentoring. Was probably going to be a terrible game, but the home team had to forfeit beforehand

    The good: At least now I get to attend the webinar my region's referee coach is hosting, I guess that's a positive. I think it's about challenges
     
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  10. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    In theory you guys are correct. But I just can't shake the fear I get that comes from awarding a PK. Since they are something like 85-90% certain to be a goal, I just get so worried about blowing it in either direction. This isn't to say that I don't award PKs, or that I'm one of those "I don't give a PK unless I see broken bones or blood" types, it's just a confidence issue that whatever I call/don't call is wrong unless its 10000% obvious. The ones where a challenge occurs with a player in possession and I have to determine if the challenge was fair or not, those aren't so bad.

    But the situation that happened in that match in particular is always my worst nightmare. When the ball is sitting free in the PA, an attacker and defender are running at it, the few seconds that I'm bracing myself for one player to get the touch on the ball first and the other player getting there a split second after and I have to decide who fouled who with a flash of socks and shoes, whoo boy.
     
  11. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand the concern. Like others have said, all I care about is if I’m confident in my call. I have no issues whatsoever calling a penalty or a send off. I just want to be confident that I have seen it right. Once I’m confident, I’ll make the call without hesitation.
     
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  12. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    Ever have one of those players that, in the end, just gets the better of you?

    Weekend tournament. U11 boys. In the game I centered, Black 17 gets chirpy. I tell him to knock it off. Mid 2nd half, white goes to take a free kick. Black 17 flies in and blocks the kick just as the ball leaves the opponent's foot. Here's your yellow card.

    Four hours later, that Black team is in the championship game. I'm AR1. AR2 of the first game is the center. Black 17 gets mouthy, and mouthier. Finally CR has had enough and cautioned him for dissent. The game goes to extra time, then kicks. Kicks are 4-3 Black going to the 5th inning. White scores, 4-4. The fifth kicker for Black, yep, number 17. He converts and black wins. #17 yells "We beat them AND we beat the referees."

    If this was a league game and a red meant a suspension, I would have been tempted if I was the center. But the CR let it go.
     
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  13. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If that kid is already doing that type of stuff at 11 years old, then he’s really going to be a handful in a few years. Good luck with that.
     
  14. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Why is it getting proper mechanics so hard? It's the easiest thing to study and can help you fake 75% of being a good referee. I was AR1 on a U19 MLSN match yesterday where the center was being assessed for regional maintenance. The AR on the other side, an experienced referee I know, limp wristing his flag on throw in calls. Assessor called him out on it saying it was inexcusable at this level to be doing that. This same guy CR'ed the younger match right before it (I got the short end of the stick this week only ARing), never got out to the touch line margins, CONSTANTLY in the way of play, standing there and making players play around him instead of quickly getting out of there.

    Meanwhile, the assessor told me I was on point with everything and that he would have thought I was a regional from how well I AR with mechanics, side-stepping, positioning, speed and agility staying with the ball (even beat players to the ball sometimes).

    Even the more experienced referees, just lack effort even on high level assessed games. It's just so tiresome. I'm not trying to be overly critical or a perfectionist. But even if they are still grassroots, I expect experienced adult refs to know the basics.
     
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  15. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Went to my local HS association District Camp and we landed on a part about red-cards and fouls. The guy sitting next to me (early 40s?) and had just started refereeing about a year ago and then he pipes up to ask a question which she answered beautifully.

    He goes on "But how..." and she replies back. "But I thought--", and this goes on for literally 3 more times.

    I lean in his ear and say "She is a former FIFA AR and currently on US Soccer's Referee Comittee. Drop it. We'll talk later."

    After I said that, she finished with "If you still think that's a red card, we uh... need to talk later."
     
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  16. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whenever I'm on a grassroots or HS webinar for SPA/DOGSO I usually walk out of it thinking "do I have to work with some of these people?"
     
  17. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "inning"......grrrrrrr

    Not really appropriate, but I'd be tempted to congratulate him and drop in a quick "Think about how much better you could be if you focused on your game instead of referee conspiracy theories."
     
  18. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know you're talking about what should be a higher level, but you sound like Al Povey (San Diego County) who originally trained me and was my original assignor. You'd have to leave out the 'experienced adult' part though. From day one doing U8 games, he expected socks up, proper shoes, looking attentive even when bored, proper flag mechanics when you got to the line..... He made sure you got off on the right foot and respected the position you were in. The kids that had their shirts out, wore their normal soccer shorts (like checkered umbos), or just mopped around the field didn't advance very quickly if at all. I learned a lot from Mr. Povey!
     
  19. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I forget my audience. Some I type to, I put things in terms of other sports so they understand.
     
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  20. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I think it's a broad statement. For higher level games, most of the "experienced" refs I'm with are hard working and dedicated with proper mechanics and good overall game management.

    For club league games, I must admit I prefer working with the younger referees who aren't set in their ways. On assessed games, I've seen the young guys take feedback well and the others not so well.

    In your case, I blame the assignor who is giving this guy games who can't even stay out of the passing lanes. What incentive is it for him to improve when he's still getting good games?
     
  21. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I am pretty much (unfortunately) at the end of my time on the field. Too many physical ailments to overcome in the last couple of years. One thing I am very happy about is that I never mailed it in. Always presented the proper image and effort. Got better as the games got harder. I am planning on trying to give it a go mid spring, then I will decide.
     
  22. RefModeExplode

    Feb 14, 2022
    Yeah, same here. Had a "meet-you-in-parking lot" parent from a HS match who I never saw again after final whistle. Not saying I would want that confrontation-- just agreeing most of those types are cowards.
     
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  23. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Or are embarrassed as soon as they red fog departs . . .
     
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  24. davidjd

    davidjd Member+

    Jun 30, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or the kids ended up turning the game around and came out with a win giving them short term memory lose.
     
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  25. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    I totally hear the frustration about checked out assistant referee's. But I'll share that my bad story this week was that I was one of those referees. I was on game 2 of 4, all 90 minute games, and it was just the most boring game I've witnessed in a long time. It was impossible for me to focus my attention. Of course, that meant the one time there was an offside call, I totally biffed it. I apologized profusely to the CR.
     
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