The Arsenal at Manchester United, Premier League Matchday 14, 2 December 2021

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Tonerl, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    am i the only one surprised that our goal - at old trafford - wasn't waved off by having fred foul de gea? and that they won on an actual legitimate penalty instead of the usual manchester united variety?

    i wonder how pissy fernandez is that his easy goal total from penalty have been taken from him by ronaldo. it makes me smile. :D
     
  2. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    Im more annoyed than bothered if that makes sense. Partey is not really good, Lokonga is better on the eyes to me I gotta look at the data
     
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  3. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    Confirmed. Not rotation, chose El Neny based on one match a year ago. Ignoring the 9 starts Sambi has made this year vs the zero league starts for El Neny before today.

     
  4. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    Didn't watch live and caught up via the replay. Partey and Auba have been bad all season, does Arteta have the stones to bench them? If Partey had signed under Emery, or if Arteta hadn't given the contract extension to Auba, I feel like both would be as in the doghouse as Pepe is right now.

    Martinelli deserves to start. Lacazette's fitness is awful and should probably only be a bench option going forward.
     
  5. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really? Our defending was uncharacteristically (for this season anyway) really bad.
     
  6. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    There was a moment in the second half when Auba got a through ball on the right inside channel. Two years ago it’s one v. one with De Gea. This match he couldn’t get past through the defender and had to take a 20 yarder. The man is finished and should be in the Turkish Super Liga at this point.

    Also, this Odegaard fella don’t have it.
     
  7. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I don’t think we defended bad, minus Tavaras.
     
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  8. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    He's toast. And as a fellow man of speed I feel for him but dude can't get behind the defence anymore. We should have let him leave on a free after the FA Cup.

    Eddie isn't great, and hasn't shown a nose for goal at this level, but at least he can accelerate.
     
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  9. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    it seems like nketiah has really improved this season and become much more than he was. i'm still okay with him leaving, only sad that we aren't getting much for him.
     
  10. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The biggest issues for me

    partey, apart from his pass in the second goal build up was poor

    Tavares is taking a lot of risks

    Auba is a ghost

    when we go 1-0 up we shit ourselves
     
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  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Game management is one of the hardest competencies. It isn't only experience. You need players who are good enough to control the structure of the game, and have the systems they can rely on.

    So while the interwebz think Arsenal should have continued to attack a poor Utd who were there for the taking, Arsenal are also a poor attacking side, so I get why Arteta favours defending.
     
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  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Giant Gooner and co will need to adjust their XG cherrypick to include this game now

     
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  13. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    Arteta has a tendency to overthink things. He probably also factored in Sambi second half meltdown in front of a similar environment at Liverpool, but he’s being too clever by half.
     
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  14. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll have to watch again (if I can stomach it) but I thought both of the non-penalty goals involved a lot of ball watching and not tracking runs. Even after the giveaway on both, we allowed United to cut us up with several passes, making them look like City. I suppose it's possible to chalk those up to two brief defensive breakdowns and overall we weren't bad. I dunno.
     
  15. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    Our midfield tracking was bad.

    Does anyone know why we, on kick offs, play the ball back to the keeper for him to blindly kick it as hard as he can down the field? For a team that wants to retain possession - even in tight situations - we give up the ball this way very cheaply. It doesn't make sense to me.
     
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  16. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    #216 wanye_stirrear, Dec 3, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
    The lead came too early in the game to switch to a defensive-minded approach. If we took the lead in the second half, I would agree with this logic, but that wasn't the case.
     
  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    This is what the twitter anorak debate is all about (from last week)

    XGA suggests Arsenal are just bad at defending, and Man Utd are worse.

    However some argue that you can cherry pick out the first 3 games, or games vs the big 3 or now games vs the big 4 (14 goals conceded)
     
  18. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nah - the xGA wasn't bad. IMO, the xGA "cherry pick" needs to exclude August games (COVID hit, backup CBs playing), and leave the Liverpool game in.
     
  19. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    IMO its the only potentially valid cherry pick because you have a significantly different team after that

    Excluding the top 3/4 isn't valid because all teams have to play them across the season
     
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  21. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, rotation may have had some part in that decision. I just read his comments on Arsenal.com:
    https://www.arsenal.com/mikel-arteta-press-conference-transcript-arsenal-man-united-premier-league

    And they print that clause differently than how Kaya Kaynak wrote it (whoever they are):
    "... and because I believe that sometimes we have to rotate things for the game"

    But TBF, when I went to watch the actual presser, his mic audio was quite poor (Amazon?!) so it's really hard to hear whether he says "rotate things", "adjust things" or "do tough things".



    Nonetheless, when I listened to him in both video clips above, I'm left with a few feelings:

    1. He's still upbeat and positive, and not too depressed, disgusted or emotional. I appreciate that.

    2. In his explanation of why we couldn't hold on to the game or press on to cement our lead, he highlighted that we had too many cheap giveaways and couldn't retain possession. Also he said a few times that we had good structure in the counter press.

    Sure our giveaways have been crucial in both of our last 2 away matches, at "big 6" teams. And sure we we struggled to retain or regain possession.

    But after our first goal, were we really doing a good job of counter pressing? Or just pressing in general? Because my eyes didn't notice that. It sure felt and looked to me as if we eased up and sat off them. (I haven't rewatched it... I rarely if ever do that)

    And lastly, I'm still left with this feeling of disconnect between what the manager is saying and what the players are doing. And that concerns me.
     
  22. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The guest on today's Arsecast said the same, except described our reaction to going 1-0 up as "NOW WHAT?"

    For me the only answer to that question, unless it's after 80', is to say "OK, now let's go equally aggressively for 2-0".

    We clearly didn't (or couldn't?) do that yesterday.
     
  23. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmm, where would he have learned that from? ;)
     
  24. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Interesting"... for a nominal CF
     
  25. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really don't like PEA as a lone ST. Spends too much on the left and leaves the middle of the field wide open. Little different if you are playing a 4-4-2 where there is another ST to fill that void but when we are running a 4-2-3-1 no one is occupying the ST lane.
     

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