Again. Yes. This is a red card everywhere but MLS. I didn't bash a single referee. But why is it that your defense of a position is a personal attack? I have done nothing out of line here.
I will say I don't suspect Roldan was acting in any way or tried to sell this. He was legit straining and leaning forward trying to fight through the hold. Melia was stronger and once Roldan lost that battle he wasn't going anywhere but down on his back fast which would cause your feet to flip up in the air some. Melia may not have been intending to slam Roldan on his back. But he wasn't letting go and Roldan was doing his best to fight through. Once Roldan lost that leverage battle he was going down with the amount of strength Melia had to use to hold him back. I am kind of ok with a yellow for what it's worth. Let's look at this a different way. My impression of watching MLS over the years is that as we get to the end of the season and playoffs draw near the standards change. Games get a little rougher and referees let a little more go. This game had the feel of a playoff game and you probably wouldn't expect this incident to be a red in a playoff game. Maybe if this was earlier in the season we expect this to be red.
You’ve been personally attacked in this thread? Where? I used your history of regularly posting about simulation to ask if you considered the possibility that there was some culpability in Roldan’s part here. That’s a genuine question. I watch this and I see Roldan getting pulled backwards, he realizes it, so he lets his whole body go. Legs go flying in the air and he crashes a little harder on Mejia. To label that a personal attack is ludicrous. Maybe some hyperbole in the 65% figure, which I conceded. But to pretend you don’t post about simulation more than anyone else on this board is at odds with the facts. And I can only laugh at the assertion this is red everywhere else. It’s hilarious to me. Mike Dean literally went yellow on an after the whistle Kung Fu kick to the calf and he’s the King of red cards in the biggest league in the world. A star keeper isn’t getting sent off for this in the EPL. Or a few other leagues. Some leagues he is. Some games in MLS he is. Maybe some EPL matches if match context allows. I’ll say it one more time. This is borderline VC. Sometimes red. Sometimes yellow. To write here that the lack of red from our next WC referee indicates some failing of the entire MLS referee system vis-a-vis the entire world… I can’t do anything but laugh. This overreaction is getting exponentially worse.
I’ve tried to stay out of this because it will be assumed this is some Sounders bias showing. I didn’t even watch the game today (I was working). Given my years as a referee, I tend to be the guy in the stands who defends the officials to all of the overreacting fans. All that said, if you don’t see textbook VC in this action, it’s because you don’t WANT to see it. Perhaps it’s a visceral response as a referee to the world and social media flipping out about a thing they don’t fully understand and some deep down need to say, “You don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m a REFEREE. Let me explain to you the fine points of violent conduct criteria as outlined in FIFA directive...” I get that instinct. But this is violent conduct.Plain and simple. Watch it at full speed. The idea that Roldan has time enough to even know what’s happening to him to think to embellish is laughable. This isn’t a borderline case. This is straightforward violent conduct towards an opponent. A literal lifting of an opponent and body slamming him. Do GKs get some extra leeway? Of course. Do people who don’t understand the LotG overreact all the time? They do. But if this happened anywhere else on the field, that player is sent off and literally NOBODY agues against it. Heck, if this happened on the street, it would be assault and battery. Real speed: Tim Melia body slam alert. 2 points for the takedown. Playoff level intensity between #SportingKC and Seattle. @KCTV5 pic.twitter.com/c5JUtu0Cfz— Jared Koller (@JaredKCTV5) October 23, 2021
I see it a bit differently than @jarbitro. I think The Rock is tweeting about it because it's funny and a little shocking to see; I think others are reacting because they see it like @tog does - the play is over, a guy is mad at another guy, so he picks up that guy and slams him to the ground WWE-style, and he gets to keep playing in the game. That is weird, and that's why people are reacting to it. Referees can have different considerations, and we can talk about neck and shoulders and Mike Dean and that's all fine, but I don't think it's that weird to wonder why people are reacting to it. FWIW, both of these are less clear on the tape. Elfath is running towards it - at the time of the slam, he's 12-14 yards away - but it's not certain that he isn't screened or that he has an angle. There is then a 1:05 pause and Elfath talks to someone over comms before showing the yellow about 1:30 after the play. It is a subjective decision, he gets to make it, but he wasn't just using his own information and it doesn't seem certain that a review was never going to happen. I don't care much about this, and I'd be very happy to never read another pissing match between @Sport Billy and @MassachusettsRef (or really anyone else) again, but it doesn't seem so wild to me or deserving of disdain. I'm sure that's true, though it is slightly different than what I said - obviously a DisCo punishment in a case like this is less significant than just giving an RC here (b/c it would just be a one-game suspension), and it's not a fix. It's the first time I've ever thought it during a game, and I perhaps it's negative enough for the ref team's ratings that they wouldn't want it, I don't know if that counts.
A lot of fans also thought the scissor tackle that broke Harvey Elliott’s leg was not even a foul, so I don’t really take what any fans say about refereeing with any credibility whatsoever.
Im sorry if you feel personally attacked. The seems a bit dramatic and I honestly didn’t expect so many people here be so passionate about a red here, especially after a long history of these not being reds. Seems like everyone has there point of view and no one is going to change. I suppose in all our respective games, we have to decide what we think is right. But I can tell you that the MLS credibility has nothing to do with its officiating. We have sent more officials to major tournaments in the last 10 years than we ever have in the leagues entire existence. That would include having officials on the final in several of those tournaments including this referee tonight. The MLS has one of the very few females in the world that has a very real possibility of going to the men’s World Cup and mark geiger himself said the fact that he can have success at the World Cup is a testament to the quality of the league he worked in. Conflating how serious the MLS is taken with its referees is exactly the attacking of officials you guys are saying you’re not doing.
This whole situation just shows the massive echo chamber that social media is and why I avoid it like the plague unless I have a really good reason to venture in. If The Rock (who I like and think is a very good entertainer) doesn’t comment on this, the players is a footnote. He comments on it because he can reference one of his moves, and the general population latches onto his comment like wildfire.
1) Is it a red? Probably? 2) Should VAR have gotten involved? I don't think so but you could talk me into it. 3) Is this the "worst call" in MLS history? Probably doesn't crack the top 10 for this season. 4) Is it a stain on all of American officiating? Nope. That's all I got.
Hey, I called it a Rock Bottom on Twitter even before he did. @tog absolutely nailed it. That’s VC all day. You can find a reason to only go yellow if you really, really try, but it’s pretty clear to me that red is certainly the most correct option.
I didn't feel personally attacked. Look, your whole post is a response to a bunch of stuff I never said. You are quite literally making things up in your head to respond to. You stated only Seattle fans think this is a red card. You are being purposefully dismissive of the situation and you are using a logical fallacy by attacking the man rather than the argument. You can look in this very thread and see non Seattle fans who think it's a red. You can see non Seattle fans state it's a borderline VC which means it could go either way. You can see non Seattle fans state they would have defended red if that's what the ref went with. You can read my posts in this thread and see my point of view. So please don't play make believe and respond to stuff I never said. ::Edit:: Look, if you want to go on a rant about how people don't respect MLS officials just leave me out of it. I will likely agree with most of what you say when speaking about fans in general. Stop saying "you guys" etc. Respond to the poster and not some made up Boogeyman you have in your head. Your attitude is why I responded in the first place. Stop. Attacking. The. Person. Respond to the post/argument.
From my perspective, nothing to see here: New York City FC vs D.C. United Yankee Stadium (7:30PM ET) REF: Joe Dickerson AR1: Jeremy Hanson AR2: Adam Wienckowski 4TH: Malik Badawi VAR: Younes Marrakchi AVAR: TJ Zablocki Cheers, Mi3ke
I took a look at your posts and it looks like you spend most of your time in other areas of this site. That’s not to say you’re not welcome here too but your condescending attitude in now two threads probably isn’t appreciated. I suppose you don’t know how much @ManiacalClown does for both the organization and stat tracking of The MLS in this forum and on other sites. I know I feel inferior to his diligence in organizing threads each week with officials listed.
I guess this was a bit controversial https://www.mlssoccer.com/competitions/mls-regular-season/2021/matches/seavsskc-10-23-2021/
You gotta sell that better if you expect a red card. Make me believe there's a three count coming. Kayfabe is king.
In all seriousness, shouldn't VAR have sent that down for VC? Melia grabs the man with both hands as he moves towards the ball and body slams him to the turf.
I love what he brings to MLS and soccer fandom and follow him on Twitter as well. He also posts regularly in MLS N&A forum and I interact with him there as well. You misread my post at your attempt to attack me again. You need to chill the ******** out because you keep making shit up in your head. Relax. My post was a joke because people might feel a little intimidated to post the weekly thread because of all the data he provides with ref assignments etc.
I know you and @ManiacalClown and honestly, that post did seem a bit harsh and not a joke. Just my opinion though.
Maybe I could have phrased it differently, but when you post a joke sometimes when you spell it out it loses its effect. Its better to ask then attack. Guy was putting all kinds of words into my mouth in the other thread and being a general dick about it. And he is doing it again.
Threads are cleaned up to the extent that any relevant material from the Week 31 thread has been moved here. I've done it once recently, because I was on my phone, but we should all do better about starting a new thread for the week. And there's a good combination of garbage, bad faith, and unnecessary or provocative comments--including from me. I've left everything alone because nothing truly crosses the line in my opinion. But let's do better collectively.